God, Religion, the Universe and Everything

[GuardianAngel1]

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Sorry for not replying in a while, been busy on trivia. First off I just need to point out Pluto was not demoted to a 'moon' (to be a moon it would have to be orbiting another planet). Pluto along with two others were deemed 'dwarf planets' along with Ceres, which is the largest object in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, and Eris which is estimated to be around three times as large as Pluto, but located farther out than it. Pluto and Eris are apart of another asteroid belt called the Kaiper Belt. In all, there are 11 'planets' so far. In order they are: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and Eris.

True, the term "moon" was used in the papers as a relative to size. My bad then, "dwarf planet" it is, sorry Pluto. And by the way, who says being a moon would be a demotion? Without the moon, there would be no tide. No tide means no waves, no waves means no clean ocean and no water circulation, which means no life under water, which means considerably less life on land. Thank God that He created the moon!

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

To GA, what if it is discovered that living bacteria is beneath the poles of Mars? Complex organisms in the oceans of the moon Europa?

That would be totally awesome! And it is totally possible. After all, God thought enough of our own need to expand to create an entire galaxy for us to explore, so why not bacteria or marine life? However, bacteria do not have souls, and neither do animals...thus life in the context of eternal life still only applies to about 6 billion Earthlings, you lucky organism you.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

The Bible does not answer all. There is nothing in the Bible about Quantum Physics. There isn't anything in it saying the Earth is spherical. As far as the Bible is concerned, the Earth is flat.

On the contrary my friend, the Bible has a plethora of quantum physics and proof that the Earth is round. Shall I elaborate?

1)The Bible suggests the presence of nuclear processes like those we associate with nuclear weaponry. This is certainly not something that could have been explained in 67 AD using known scientific principles (when Peter wrote the following verse). Among Christian scholars, we say that God really knows how to split an Adam.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.



2)The Bible also described the shape of the earth centuries before people thought that the earth was spherical.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

The word translated “circle” here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated “circuit,” or “compass” (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched—not something that is flat or square.
The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Bible Thumpers, want to take certain parts of the Bible and interpret in a way that kinda-sorta explains modern day marvels, while they also want to take it to be literal at the same time.

These people are not called "Bible Thumpers" they are called "Hypocrites", and we Christians don't like them much either. A true Christian does not read the Bible...we study the Bible. This means that we endevour to know they very heart and soul of every word in the Scripture like our lives depend on it...because they do.
Recall that the Roman Catholics were the ones to consider the spherical theory of earth as heresy? Yes, because they did as you say, but did not take the scriptures literally. We Christians do. Thus, according to the original translation, the book of Isaiah describes the earth as round.
However, also consider that the Bible is a compilation of many types of literature, it isn't just a book. It has poetry, parables, flowing text with the "hero" and the "arch-enemy", and archived lineage going back all the way to Adam. Every area must be read and considered as you would any text of that same kind, with the understanding that the difference is that the Bible is inspired directly by God. There are things to be taken literally, where it says to take it literally, and there are things that are figurative that are obviously so. Most figurative text in the Bible is explianed directly after such text, so there is no need for people to pick and choose what scriptures mean, because it SAYS what it means in black and white.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

I will be back with the question that eventually turned me from any organized religion whatsoever. I will be skimming through all of the pages to organize what I will say.

Please do! I hope that you come to realize that Christians are not bent on world domination, or seek to make you feel weak and guilty. People that do such things never understood what God is really about in the first place. Christians are about truth and love. We are about peace and patience, kindness and generosity, hope and the promise of an eternal life without suffering. We are about the things that the world cannot offer, and the things that the world cannot understand. I can't give them to you. I'm here to introduce the one who can, so ask whatever you want to, because I'm here to give answers!

[AHundredMillionSuns]

I'm not sure how to quote, so if someone could help me with that, I would be grateful!

Actually GA1, according to new studies, some astronomers say that the moon was actually a planet so near to ours that they collided and that's why our moon is so large, relatively to our own. In fact, in a few billion years they should collide again.

It still doesn't make any sense that 'he' would create a galaxy with over 100 billion stars, and still make over 500 billion more galaxies with more or less stars than our own. And why make it so that these galaxies are accelerating apart from each other?

What if there are intelligent aliens out there? The pope has already told everyone it's okay to believe in them. Do these beings have souls? What if eventually they come to us and say they created us, and give the evidence needed to prove they created us? What are you going to do then?

Your interpretation is completely exaggerates the effect of a nuclear bomb exploding. With current weapons, we do not have the capability to cause the entire Earth to burn up.

The translation is already in English so your Hebrew translation doesn't hold up. Besides compasses were not invented until at least the fourth century C.E. Isaiah lived in the Eighth Century B.C.E. And a circuit is simply a traveling in a circle, it can be track circuit or it could have been meant as a two-dimensional circular earth that was clearly represented on many maps at the time.

I agree that they are hypocrites, but what exactly is a true 'Christian'? Are you Evangelical? And how exactly are you supposed to tell the difference between the fanciful and figurative texts and the real thing? Why would these authors try to confuse the reader? There is no place in the bible where it says 'this story is the word of god, but the next story is not'.

How can you say Christians don't want domination over the world, when at the same time you want to convert every human being on Earth to Christianity? Is that not World Domination?

[Calena]

In the same way SPN does not dictate my views on God, however, the question was based on the theoretical instance that your believe was indeed based on some idea behind the show. So...back to the original question.

Here's the original question:

So, if I started attacking personal belief based on the characteristics of the portrayal of Buffy, you wouldn't say something to the effect of "it's just a show"?

I have a hard time trying this mind experiment. Joss Whedon fans say he is God, but he's not the jealous demanding type. Which is why I can pledge my allegiance also to Master Kripke. While I love Buffy the truth is, it is just a show.
I'll think a bit more on this and try to wrap my head around it.

GA, sorry, I can't watch the clips you posted. I get physically unwell listening to that kind of music. Especially since I've been to the AC/DC concert in Vienna yesterday, can't ruin my fond memories.

I'm not sure how to quote, so if someone could help me with that, I would be grateful!

You can always use the "quote" button at the bottom of each message. There are various ways to quote, I haven't mastered them myself. Personally I alwys type [quote] copy the text I want to quote and then type [quote] again, only with a slash at the beginning, which closes the html tags.
Look here: http://forums.buddytv.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#quote

I will be back with the question that eventually turned me from any organized religion whatsoever. I will be skimming through all of the pages to organize what I will say.

I'm listening. Equally interesting is what question/event made you an atheist.
I don't expect you to read through the whole thread!

[smileyone]

I'm not sure how to quote, so if someone could help me with that, I would be grateful!

Hello A 100 Mill Suns
Welcome to the threads! Good to have you about these forums!!!
Calena is correct in saying that you can just use the quote button at the bottom of each persons post.... you can also put the words... [/quote] at the end of each thing you want to quote with [quote] at the beginning of each thing you want to quote .... obviously do it the other way round so it works right.... I have done it in reverse order so it doesn't work on this occasion, if that makes sense....
The easiest way I tend to quote passages etc.... is by highlighting, cutting and pasting text you want quoted and then as it's still highlighted, use or press above 'speech bubble' type symbol once and it will do a wraparound text quote for you! Go and give it a practise!!! You can always edit your mistakes etc... afterwards!!!

Once again.... hope that helps and welcome to the threads!!! Catch up with you soon!!!

Hello all, btw.... Still busy packing up my house...
Chat later, when I get some time to stand still and breathe.... LOL!!!!

Especially since I've been to the AC/DC concert in Vienna yesterday, can't ruin my fond memories.

Hope your day or night at the concert went well! Will catch up with you later...

[Calena]

Originally Posted by smileyone

Hope your day or night at the concert went well! Will catch up with you later...

It was great. Did you get my message on your mobile, by any chance?
It is sooooo amazing how these guys, being 61 and 52 years old can run and jump around on stage for 2 hours straight. I'm in awe.
Plus I got official AC/DC blinking devil horns which I will bring with me and put to good use Friday and Saturday evening.

Hello all, btw.... Still busy packing up my house...

I hope you won't be completely exhausted come Thursday. BTW, is there a weather forecast for Birmingham for the weekend?

[GuardianAngel1]

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Actually GA1, according to new studies, some astronomers say that the moon was actually a planet so near to ours that they collided and that's why our moon is so large, relatively to our own. In fact, in a few billion years they should collide again.

That would be interesting indeed!

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

It still doesn't make any sense that 'he' would create a galaxy with over 100 billion stars, and still make over 500 billion more galaxies with more or less stars than our own. And why make it so that these galaxies are accelerating apart from each other?

The real question is why wouldn't He? The number of galaxies is theoretical at best, but even if there were 100 billion more, so what? God likes to create, obviously. If you had the power to create a galaxy, would you stop at one?

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

What if there are intelligent aliens out there? The pope has already told everyone it's okay to believe in them.

It's a possibility, and yet the Bible has no mention of life on other planets, only Earth and Heaven. Dolphins are intelligent, but God still did not breathe into them to give them life, as he did human beings. Thus, they do not have souls.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Do these beings have souls? What if eventually they come to us and say they created us, and give the evidence needed to prove they created us? What are you going to do then?

I would confer with God. Here's the thing. Aliens have never taken the time to show themselves to us, if they do exist. God, on the other hand, has. Technically, God is extra-terrestrial, and could be considered an "alien". Abraham wrote in the Genesis 23:4 "I am an alien, and a stranger among you." The term alien applies to anyone who's home is other than the planet of origin, in your case, Earth. I am an alien, because my home is Heaven, not Earth. God has taken the time to show Himself to us, to create us, to believe in us, and to give us the tools that we need in order to live a victorious life on Earth and an eternal life in heaven. Strange, that people would rather believe that little green martians might exist.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Your interpretation is completely exaggerates the effect of a nuclear bomb exploding. With current weapons, we do not have the capability to cause the entire Earth to burn up.

Correct, we do not. We are not God, and God created the atom in the first place, therefore, it stands to reason that He would know how to create such an effect.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

The translation is already in English so your Hebrew translation doesn't hold up.

How so? The Old Testament was originally written in Greek, and the New in Hebrew, so the original translations actually mean quite a bit. Did you know that the Bible actually uses five different words for what is translated in English as "love". Therefore, knowing which translation of love was actually used in each passage helps us understand what was actually being said. For instance, many people know that the word Agape when translated as love means unconditional love, whereas the word Epithemea (which is translated as love in English) is closer to the word lust instead.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Besides compasses were not invented until at least the fourth century C.E. Isaiah lived in the Eighth Century B.C.E. And a circuit is simply a traveling in a circle, it can be track circuit or it could have been meant as a two-dimensional circular earth that was clearly represented on many maps at the time.

And would still represent the idea of a round Earth. The word compass is not only used to describe the directional instrument.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

I agree that they are hypocrites, but what exactly is a true 'Christian'?

A true Christian:
A) loves God above all else
B) believes the Bible in it's entirety
C) follows His commands
D) loves others above his/herself
E) is not ashamed to do all of the above, even at the cost of his/her life

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Are you Evangelical?

Yes, I am. I belong to the Assemblies of God, which are Evangelical Pentecostal. And, no, you do not have to be an A/G Pentecostal to be a true Christian, it just helps to support and be supported by a group that believes the Bible entirely.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

And how exactly are you supposed to tell the difference between the fanciful and figurative texts and the real thing?

There are no fanciful texts in the Bible. It is all 100% truth. If you can tell the difference between a poem and a story in any other literature, than you can tell the difference in the Bible. Also, parables (stories that are told to express a moral, but are not actual historical events) are clearly presented as such and are usually followed by something like "this is what the parable means:" and then the meaning behind the parable is given. It's actually very easy to understand, especially if you read the New Century Version or use a study Bible that has other things in it to help you understand, like maps of the area at the time, or Greek and Hebrew translations.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

Why would these authors try to confuse the reader? There is no place in the bible where it says 'this story is the word of god, but the next story is not'.

God has not given us a spirit of confusion, but of love, power, and a sound mind. Tell me what is confusing you, and I will clarify. Also, there is no such quote in the Bible, because all of the Bible is the word of God. There is nothing in the Bible that is not from God.

Originally Posted by AHundredMillionSuns

How can you say Christians don't want domination over the world, when at the same time you want to convert every human being on Earth to Christianity? Is that not World Domination?

Absolutely not! World domination requires the motivation to rule over, or have power over others. Our motivation is to hand out freedom, compassion, love, understanding, peace, prosperity, and the hope of a future that will mean something for all eternity. This isn't about making others fit inside a mold of what we want them to be, this is about helping people realize that they have a purpose in life. You have a purpose, and it's a purpose that only you can fulfill. Who wouldn't want to know that?

[GuardianAngel1]

Sorry about the double post guys and gals!

Originally Posted by Calena

I have a hard time trying this mind experiment.

That's the great thing about God. He makes you think.

Originally Posted by Calena

Joss Whedon fans say he is God, but he's not the jealous demanding type. Which is why I can pledge my allegiance also to Master Kripke. While I love Buffy the truth is, it is just a show.
I'll think a bit more on this and try to wrap my head around it.

It is a difficult concept, but a concept that makes you think from a different perspective. Interesting, is it not?

Originally Posted by Calena

GA, sorry, I can't watch the clips you posted. I get physically unwell listening to that kind of music. Especially since I've been to the AC/DC concert in Vienna yesterday, can't ruin my fond memories.

That's okay. Rap isn't for everyone, but it sure sounds good to me!

[manutd3824]

Still haven't convinced each other have you? You could write a whole book about atheism where each page is a post in here...

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