God, Religion, the Universe and Everything

[smileyone]

Ok all.... Whilst I was sending you via pm... that flashback from my childhood... I came across this....

Thought it might be a bit interesting in this discussion.... although, I could see how it could be a little controversial....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aW2N...eature=related

[JohnnyUtahFBI]

Oh boy I've been waiting for something like this let me tell you....I have to start off by telling you all that I have not read the other threads where all this started because....basically I don't care, 1. I hear enough of it from most people i know and, 2. these people basically already have their minds made up and you can debate with them all you want until their 'Judgement Day' comes make them feel stronger in their faith.

My beef is if you feel so secure in your faith, why do you feel like you have to convert everyone? Do you think there's some sort of points system in 'Heaven' where the more people you 'convince' gets you closer to your god? Oh I know Jesus, brother of James said go out, to the ends of the Earth and spread the 'Good News'...but you know what? During the 32 years I have spent on this Earth, which according to the Bible is chronologically only what? 7,000 years old, I've heard about all this Good News, but honestly haven't seen or heard any of it coming to fruition. What I do see however, is the opposite. But that is just from my personal experience.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is...leave people alone...worry about yourself and not other people's business. Believe in whatever you want, but please, PLEASE, keep it to yourself.

This is not directed towards anyone who posted, more like a statement that I would like to convey to the people out there who feel the need to spread the 'Word'

more later...cause smiley just sent me something that totally made me lose my train of thought...thanks smiley one LMAO

[smileyone]

more later...cause smiley just sent me something that totally made me lose my train of thought...thanks smiley one LMAO

.... Yeah boy... you go play ....You just get busy and go play .... see you again in a few hours.... LMAO!!!!

Debaser....If you can momentarily pull yourself away from your little ballgame there.... The first bit of this conversation was over in SPN thread... a damn good debate that a few got involed in... and yes, as you said... normally with these type of debates, peoples minds are already made up and generally will not be altered not matter what, but it is still good occasionally to see where one is and to hear others take on it.... We moved it over here when we got engrossed in it and we found that it was getting harder to keep saying... ''Dean is Awesome' at the end of every post....

Personally, I won't come on here to try an convert anyone over to any religion... I'm having a hard enough time trying to keep myself on track let alone try to convert someone else.... It's an interesting topic at times though... only if you are ready to read it without judgement... people get out of it what they do....I suppose...

Now there... Debaser hun.... you go back to playing now.... See you again in a few hours!!!!

[Calena]

There is belief in fairy tales and then there is belief in God

For me it's the same thing. Grimm's fairy tales were told to convey certain messages (Don't trust strangers, for example) and the stories in the bible have their own agenda, too, and are no more proven to have happened. But a child is entitled to belief in miracles, fairy tales, gods, however it is to be wished that he gets some enlightenment as he grows up.

I deeply respect that you let your son choose his own religion!

As for the people in the church who are treating you so mean, I don't know why you put up with them for so long. As you told it you and AJ are separate during your time in church anyway, so you just could have driven him there and then spent the 2 hours with something more enjoyable than being looked down at. Ah, I'm so angry at the holier than thou hypocrites on your behalf!

basically I don't care, 1. I hear enough of it from most people i know and,

Just read my brilliant posts, then. No, I understand, and it would be time consuming to read up on everything and I'm bound to repeat some of my points here anyway - should the true believers ever come, I'm waiting!!!

My beef is if you feel so secure in your faith, why do you feel like you have to convert everyone?

For the ones high up in the church hierachy, going back to a church's founders, it's really a no-brainer: the more members, the more power. So it's totally understandable that they made up the rule for their sheep to go and recruite other people to become sheep.
From the sheeps' POV a) they are threatened with going to hell themselves if they don't seize every opportunity to spread the word and b) you have to make yourself realize that they really believe the going to hell thing, so most of them are probably genuinely sorry for everyone who they think will end up in hell. Like I feel sorry for homeless people.

[candyrose]

For the ones high up in the church hierachy, going back to a church's founders, it's really a no-brainer: the more members, the more power. So it's totally understandable that they made up the rule for their sheep to go and recruite other people to become sheep.
From the sheeps' POV a) they are threatened with going to hell themselves if they don't seize every opportunity to spread the word and b) you have to make yourself realize that they really believe the going to hell thing, so most of them are probably genuinely sorry for everyone who they think will end up in hell. Like I feel sorry for homeless people.

Essentially it can be viewed as a marketing tactic to generate new members. I have an older family member who is deeply religious, one of those people who takes every part of the bible literally. She's been going to the same church for years and has seen many people, including pastors, come and go. The church, not too long ago, decided they wanted to change their image...to pull in younger members...because most of the attendees were the elderly...people who had been going for years. They started enacting all these different programs, youth programs that had incentives. They began raising money and renovating the property to make it more youth friendly and thus more appealing. Meanwhile, they completely neglected the people who had been going for years...some of them were even driven out of the church--all because they wanted more younger members.

Anyway, do you really think they ALL feel genuinely sorry that some might be going to hell?

[Calena]

Anyway, do you really think they ALL feel genuinely sorry that some might be going to hell?

Nah, not all of them. Many of them. Of course the ones who are thriving on the thought of godless heathens getting what they deserve exist, too.
While we are on the subject, my fave clip from godtube:
(is it me or this that page way slow?)
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.ph...7478ef9db6cec1


smiley, I wanted to respond to the clip you posted: while I don't approve of the language used in the introduction the point the clip makes - Christianity wasn't the first to use certain things - is very valid.

[smileyone]

Originally Posted by Calena

For me it's the same thing. Grimm's fairy tales were told to convey certain messages (Don't trust strangers, for example) and the stories in the bible have their own agenda, too, and are no more proven to have happened. But a child is entitled to belief in miracles, fairy tales, gods, however it is to be wished that he gets some enlightenment as he grows up.

I deeply respect that you let your son choose his own religion!

yep... He does too, funny enough... He is happy with no pressure... That way he'll make his own way.... and when it comes to the time he has his own kids... hopefully, he'll adopt that attitude too... I am his mum... but there is some things in life, he has to work out totally on his own.... and this I believe is one of them...

As for the people in the church who are treating you so mean, I don't know why you put up with them for so long. As you told it you and AJ are separate during your time in church anyway, so you just could have driven him there and then spent the 2 hours with something more enjoyable than being looked down at. Ah, I'm so angry at the holier than thou hypocrites on your behalf!

LMAO.... I did at one stage.... I used to get to church for 10.30am... drop him at his Kids Club there... and then go off to do weekly shopping at local store and get back in time to pick him up for 12pm... but one day... he stubbornly insisted I didn't go shopping but instead go into main church hall with the rest of them whilst he was in his Kids Club... I kind of got sucked in then....

Honestly, I did enjoy it for a bit.... felt right at home... as I have said... really nice people.... but then once settled... I felt a bit lost there... I dunno why... just me ... It's no one in particular... I just felt a bit out of sorts there... like it was no longer for me...
I have not gone back there in a bit... and over summer either myself or Mini Me have been busy on a Sunday anyway, thus not making the usual Sunday Services anyway...

If I make the decision, not to go back to that group, but instead continue to let AJ continue there in the place he loves... then so be it.... It will be the right decision for me and AJ will understand it.... His fate is strong enough to do church by himself... and meet up with me afterwards once it's done.... I trust all the people in there that way... they will look after him well! I will still be more then happy to chat to him about it... and I will still support him in any decision he makes re: this!!! We'll see....

Just read my brilliant posts, then. No, I understand, and it would be time consuming to read up on everything and I'm bound to repeat some of my points here anyway - should the true believers ever come, I'm waiting!!!

Well.... you got the brilliant Debaser to get out of his bed and out of the gym to come in here and read and post a comment back in reply.... That took some doing in itself.... God bless him!!!
That saying though.... you won't see him again now for days cause he is playing with balls of all sorts....

[Calena]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARD...eature=related
I want to hug and kiss Dawkins for not breaking down on the floor laughing his ass off. "We have a very full understanding of why the tides go in...", how can he keep a straight face? Richard, I love you!

Well.... you got the brilliant Debaser to get out of his bed and out of the gym to come in here and read and post a comment back in reply....

He's not the chattiest on, is he?

[candyrose]

Ha! I like that clip...one of the better ones. However, I don't think it beats the time that one dude started talking about how people are horny to do good. LMAO.

[smileyone]

Originally Posted by Calena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARD...eature=related
I want to hug and kiss Dawkins for not breaking down on the floor laughing his ass off. "We have a very full understanding of why the tides go in...", how can he keep a straight face? Richard, I love you!

Yeah Good man... He has written some great books!!!

He's not the chattiest on, is he?

LMAO... I have been up til 2-3am some nights chatting to him on AIM and Facebook.... We have some fun, I assure you!!!
And he hates Tom Cruise movies too... which is always a bonus!!!!