Angels&Demons in Supernatural

[Calena]

Whoever gets the pop culture reference in the thread title first gets an apple pie!

I have been wondering:
YED had 2 kids, right? How does that work? Who is their mother and where is she? Azazel was really pissed that his kids got killed. Is that because he really loved them or because he was pissed he was losing? Can demons feel real love?

What has struck me as strange is that Lillith willingly and knowingly sacraficed herself for Lucifer. She got nothing out of it for herself. Why did she do that? Love? (Religious delusions? --> do demons believe in an afterlife? ) If demons are able to feel love, especially to the degree that they sacrifice themselves for another's wellbeing, how evil and demonic are they really?
Couldn't they just be seen as another species that happens to use us for fun? Much like humans use animals or other humans for recreational fun - ok it isn't a good comparison but you probably get what I mean. Demons from their POV aren't evil. Also it could be debated if objectively seen, if one wasn't biased as member of the human race, demons are more evil than humans. Like if aliens watched the ongoings on earth who'd they think were the bad guys?

Have the writers ever thought about this at all?

We know about at least 2 supernatural species that can feel love: Vampires and the creatures that bled Sam in S4 (forgot the name). Also shapeshifters suffer because of lack of love.

Lucifer is technically not a demon, but an angel. Lucifer created demons. So angels can create things. Can angels have children? If so, how would that work? Anna said angels feel nothing. Evidence indicates they feel, but don't allow themselves to feel what is not "proper" for an angel.

[smileyone]

Are we talking about a song here, someones album or the fact that it's the follow up book/movie to Di Vinci Code???

Wow.... what an introduction?

Will have to think about this one for a bit before I make a reply post ....

[Calena]

Originally Posted by smileyone

Are we talking about a song here, someones album or the fact that it's the follow up book/movie to Di Vinci Code???

You won the apple pie! Of course it's the new Dan Brown movie!

[helps]

Hey that's not fair, I so knew this. I wanna apple pie,too
Guys, this is awesome thread and Cal I see you've put some effort and thoughts into it. I'm int one of those moods when I'm saying nothing, but nonsense... Which means,I'll be back with worth readin' respond later

[Calena]

Originally Posted by helps

Hey that's not fair, I so knew this. I wanna apple pie,too

Just because it's you, I'll give you apple pie, too, even though you weren't the first to answer.

Guys, this is awesome thread and Cal I see you've put some effort and thoughts into it. I'm int one of those moods when I'm saying nothing, but nonsense... Which means,I'll be back with worth readin' respond later

Oh great, everyone saying what a good thread this is but no ones actually answering. *sulk*
No, people, take your time, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on demonic and angelic procreation.

[helps]

Oh great, everyone saying what a good thread this is but no ones actually answering. *sulk*
No, people, take your time, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on demonic and angelic procreation.

Hey you've seen what I wrote in Misha's thread You so don't wanna start me writing something on here in one of my goofy moods. Nope, you'll be happy to wait

You're soooooo nice *jumps on Cal* thanks for the pie .^^

[smileyone]

Just because it's you, I'll give you apple pie, too, even though you weren't the first to answer.

Ahhh that's soooooooooo not fair!!! You might as well get in a few pies.... now you are giving them out to more then just one, they'll all want some now....

Tomorrow Cal.... tomorrow.... I'm too tired now to use any more brain matter....

[Calena]

I have some additional thoughts!

We were having this "grace" and angel possession discussion in the Lucifer Casting thread, where it is off topic anyway, so I am being a good user and continue the discussion here.

I can't imagine angels have to ask permission to possess people. They might have to find special people who have it in their blood, but I just can't imagine Uriel asking nicely if it was ok for him to use a person as vessel.

Lucifer is definitely referred to as both "Bringer of Light" and as a fallen angel. Now, what do we know happens to fallen angels who are not Lucifer? They are reborn as a human child, obviously. They can't remember their past, but even graceless they are able to work their angel mojo. Which also kind of answers if Lucifer would be able to burn eyes out graceless, because Anna could draw these blood signs and get rid of Castiel and Uriel without her grace and without knowing who she was /has been.

So, Lucifer was the very first cast out, fallen angel. It is not that hard to believen that god made special arrangements for the first rogue angel. Also wasn't Lucifer some kind of god's favourite? Not to speak of that god obviously needed someone to play the part of the corrupter of his new playthings, humans, to keep himself entertained. Probably Lucifer's rebellion came just right for god.

[Suzieq1978]

Originally Posted by Calena

I can't imagine angels have to ask permission to possess people. They might have to find special people who have it in their blood, but I just can't imagine Uriel asking nicely if it was ok for him to use a person as vessel.

This was discussed also in Lucifer Casting -thread, but I end up commenting to it here . I've only watched season four from lousy computer screen and listened through lousy computer stereos - so, did they at any point give an impression that angels have to ask for permission before possessing a vessel, or is that just conversation raised up in fandom? I'd also like to think they don't really need the permission, but angels like Castiel respect so much humans that they feel they need the permission or at least it should be given before entering into someone unless emergency situations.

--Not to speak of that god obviously needed someone to play the part of the corrupter of his new playthings, humans, to keep himself entertained. Probably Lucifer's rebellion came just right for god.

Ooookey... You made me think Sandman, again. A brief introduction to the comic's "situation" before quoting: Lucifer got tired and shut down the Hell, throwing out all its inhabitants: lost souls, demons and so on. And when Hell was all empty and it's last gates were locked by himself Lucifer gave the key to Sandman. And Sandman needs now to decide to whom of all his guests he shall give it/sell it/trade it.

"We... I will relay the message. It is from my Creator...
There must be a Hell. There must be a place for the demons; a place for the damned. Hell is Heaven's reflection. It is Heaven's shadow. They define each other. Reward and Punishment; hope and despair.
There must be a Hell, for without Hell, Heaven has no meaning."
Neil Gaiman: Sandman - Season of Mists

[Calena]

so, did they at any point give an impression that angels have to ask for permission before possessing a vessel, or is that just conversation raised up in fandom?

My memory is not the best, but I recall Jimmy being asked for permission by Castiel in The Rapture.

"We... I will relay the message. It is from my Creator...
There must be a Hell. There must be a place for the demons; a place for the damned. Hell is Heaven's reflection. It is Heaven's shadow. They define each other. Reward and Punishment; hope and despair.
There must be a Hell, for without Hell, Heaven has no meaning."
Neil Gaiman: Sandman - Season of Mists

I agree. It's pretty ridiculous to believe in heaven, but not hell. Pity this is a comic and not a novel. I can't read comics. Too many pics, too little words. I can't really focus on the pics and only by reading the words and I can't figure out the plot.