Angels&Demons in Supernatural

[ExtraCookie]

Originally Posted by candyrose

Aw, it's okay. I just felt compelled to remind you and anyone else in here. I love you, too!

Golly, I feel all lovey right now...don't worry, I won't tell anyone about our secret marriage on that special secluded island, off the coast of a country that shall not be named. Oh, crappers, I just did. Oh well...

Was Dawkins there?

[candyrose]

I agree that's another way to take Cas's statement. It's just that, to me, he seemed overwhelmed and surprised by the pain. When we first met him, he definitely came off as a calm, placid, doing-OK-kind of angel. If he was no stranger to pain, why has he changed so much as he's been introduced to human pain? Why would our pain surprise him and invoke such a passionate reaction, while his own pain leaves him placid and mellow? Just seems like if he were used to pain, OUR pain wouldn't strike him so hard. *shrug* It could be either way, of course. Either way will be entertaining! Can't wait!

I think someone on there said so themselves--they have been aware of human suffering for a long time. The difference, however, goes back to what I stated earlier. It's much different to view others' pain from a distance than it is to actually become involved with them and their pain and have to deal with it as well. It's like with starving children around the world or with homeless people: We know they are in pain and obviously suffering, but we really don't Feel it in the most raw sense until we witness it directly, personally, for ourselves. It's much different to watch some special on TV about starving children in Africa than it is to actually go to Africa and meet these people yourself. Obviously, going to Africa and being around all those people...talking to them, interacting with them, and observing them, getting to know them, becoming involved with them, etc. is going to have more of an affect than watching it on TV. It's going to feel more personal, be taken more seriously, and have a stronger, more lasting impact.

Knowing the outcome is much different from getting to watch it, make sense? He may know the outcome, but the difference still create variety. I'm probably not explaining this well enough. And, to be honest, this is only an idea I am throwing out in the open, not necessarily something I firmly believe. I'm just say God supposedly watches over us all. If it's something he does do and possibly feels he has to do, then creating variety makes a big difference. It's not like sitting on there on his throne and watching exactly the same thing over and over again, with nothing new or different, with nothing interesting. Look at spoilers for our favorite shows, for example. Sometimes I read spoilers and know pretty much what is going to happen on my favorite shows! I know what to expect and what the outcome will likely be. Even when the spoilers are correct and everything that happens is what I expected, it's still very much different and I am still entertained by the show. I may not always be shocked or surprised, but I'm still entertained, even knowing what is going to happen.

Okay, maybe spoilers aren't the best example, but you get the idea. I'm sure you'd say even with spoilers one doesn't know every single detail. Hm, you could also use reading a script and then seeing a movie. it's often much different seeing it play out for yourself, versus just knowing what to expect.

[Calena]

This has been a very fulfilling meeting of the Supernatural Atheists Club! Don't forget, your dues are due next week!

Indeed! But who made you the collector?

Aw, it's okay. I just felt compelled to remind you and anyone else in here. I love you, too!

Golly, I feel all lovey right now...don't worry, I won't tell anyone about our secret marriage on that special secluded island, off the coast of a country that shall not be named. Oh, crappers, I just did. Oh well..

It's ok, Cookie can know. And it's not like anyone else comes in here anyway. I wish we could got back to that island for a holiday, but damn, it disappered in a white flash!

Knowing the outcome is much different from getting to watch it, make sense? He may know the outcome, but the difference still create variety.

I agree here. I mean we rewatch SPN countless times - at least I do - well not countless, but I have seen the first 3 seasons 3 times and S4 2 times. I know what happens, but still find it fascinating. And I can image that even the writers find it fascinating to watch, how their vision got transferred on screen. Plus god doesn't have much else to do, does he?

And, yes, Calena, I understand what you're saying about the net, you antisocial chick you! I'm much the same way, only I'd be happy to hang out with people more often if I could. I'm a hermit.

Isn't that a bit contradictory. Or are you a hermit not by choice? That would be awful.

[ExtraCookie]

Yep, I agree with the suffering up close and personal stuff. Although it's not a totally apt comparison with the starving folks. Cas acted totally surprised, like he just didn't realize at all things were so bad. I don't think that would be my reaction in Africa. I'd be way more impacted and saddened, sure, but it wouldn't be some complete surprise. Now I'm getting depressed thinking about starving people. But neither of us knows for a fact exactly what that reaction was about, so either take may be true and either take will work for me and I can't wait!

Still stickin' to my guns on the God stuff, as He (according to belief) DOES know the details. Each and every single, itty bitty, teeny tiny one. If you are going to scratch your arm in two minutes, he knows it. He knows the exact spot, the exact time, exactly what the itch feels like & what caused it (cuz He made that itch), exactly how hard you'll scratch, and for how long, if it will itch again five minutes later or not, each and every single germ on your fingers that may transfer to the itch & the details of what each one looks like, etc. So, the only entertainment could possibly be watching you do that. It's even more involved than being an author or watching a movie (heck, I've noticed things for the first time in movies I've seen many times before). There are absolutely, positively zero surprises for Him whatsoever. Ever. And, as He is the ultimate power, why make suffering and struggling be considered "entertainment" or "sport?" That's a human view. He could've made anything be any way whatsoever. He could've made a universe that's made out of spaghetti be considered "entertaining." He could've decided a lovely world where there is only joy and peace (that's not to say boredom or nothing to do!) and positivity is "entertaining." The whole concept of entertainment is a human thing. WE think of challenges, struggles, etc. as "entertaining," for lack of a better word. Why did He take this view? *SIGH* Silly deity! I do understand your point, but I think the point is pointless, if that makes sense. I see no excuse or reason whatsoever for God to create suffering & struggle.

[Calena]

WE think of challenges, struggles, etc. as "entertaining," for lack of a better word. Why did He take this view?

I can answer that! Because God did not make humans, humans made God! So there!

I do understand your point, but I think the point is pointless, if that makes sense. I see no excuse or reason whatsoever for God to create suffering & struggle.

I dont'd disagree with that.

[ExtraCookie]

Calena, do you really think the show will be so bold as to say there is no God? Or that God is not the ultimate good after all? I totally WISH it would do that. But, remember, it's an American show and America is, unfortunately, a religious country. It takes its religion pretty seriously. Religion even infects our politics. It's quite a rampant disease here, and there seems to be no cure on the horizon. There are already viewers who are upset with the turn the show has taken. They are insulted. Their feelings are hurt. They're taking it personally.

If the show goes so far as to deliver a negative ultimate message about God, there will surely be an outcry. Surely a loss of viewers. Of course, Eric seems to want to be done with the show, so maybe he IS at a point where he's ready to just lay all his creative cards on the table, even if it kills the show, because he's done with it, anyway. That'd be good from a creative standpoint. I, and many other fans, however, would like to see the show survive past S5.

I really don't understand why some don't want it to go beyond 5. If YOU don't enjoy it any more at a certain point, than turn it off and let the ones who DO enjoy it enjoy it is my feeling about that. I don't know why people want to ruin the fun for others just so they can have it end wrapped up in their own personal bow. Just watch it to the point you no longer enjoy it and exercise your right to turn the channel is my feeling toward those who feel this way. If you don't like the ending, make your own up (I've done that). If others want more and the show is willing to give it to us, we should have it. Sheesh.

Where'd that season rant come from?! Lol! Oh, talking about bad God message killing the show. Right.

[ExtraCookie]

Originally Posted by Calena

Indeed! But who made you the collector?

It's ok, Cookie can know. And it's not like anyone else comes in here anyway. I wish we could got back to that island for a holiday, but damn, it disappered in a white flash!

I agree here. I mean we rewatch SPN countless times - at least I do - well not countless, but I have seen the first 3 seasons 3 times and S4 2 times. I know what happens, but still find it fascinating. And I can image that even the writers find it fascinating to watch, how their vision got transferred on screen. Plus god doesn't have much else to do, does he?

Isn't that a bit contradictory. Or are you a hermit not by choice? That would be awful.

Hm, I didn't say I was collecting, but, yeah, I'll take it! I promise, I'll use it for . . . you know, atheist activities and what-not!

See my post to candy about no surprises ever for God. And those SPN DVD won't fully entertain you for the rest of your life. So, I don't see how no surprises ever from HIs living beings could sustain God forever.

Yep, I am a hermit against my will. I'm social phobic. Awful is quite the apt description. (Wish that was my usual sarcasm there, but it's not.)

[candyrose]

It's ok, Cookie can know. And it's not like anyone else comes in here anyway. I wish we could got back to that island for a [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]holiday[/color][/color], but damn, it disappered in a white flash!

Ha! That was a good one. It should be interesting to see our Jacob. Do you think he will come across as completely different? I think, from vibes and appearances alone, he could pull it off.

I agree here. I mean we rewatch SPN countless times - at least I do - well not countless, but I have seen the first 3 seasons 3 times and S4 2 times. I know what happens, but still find it fascinating. And I can image that even the writers find it fascinating to watch, how their vision got transferred on screen. Plus god doesn't have much else to do, does he?

Yep. Good point! I think it's common for people to watch episodes multiple times. For me, it really doesn't get all that old. I've done that with SPN, and I sure as hell was on a roll with BSG.

Hey, when I was down at the beach, they had a bunch of themed playing cards. They had bands, movies, and TV shows. I ended up getting the last box of PB playing cards. It has different designs, like from Mikey's tattoos, and also has various pictures as well. I can't remember, however, if they had SPN playing cards. I'm sure they'd did, being that they had about everything else.

Cookie, that may be true in your case, but I don't think it's that way for everyone. I personally have a hard time imagining how someone could even be aware of what's going on in other parts of the world and not feel compelled to do something. With news footage, you often see people getting their dinner as they watch events, horrible events, unfolding around the world, and it's easy to forget about it and not really, really feel anything at all. It's kind of like, "oh, that's really sad," and then they turn off their television sets and drive off to the nearest mall to go shopping, as if they had not just seen what they did. They are aware of the suffering, but they really don't Feel it. It's easy to forget about it because all one has to do is put down their newspaper or turn off their TV and then go do something else. They aren't forced to stand in the middle of it all, kind of like Cas was. Of course, there are still people who care and are affected by it, without ever having been there; but these people are far more rare than the ones who choose to ignore it.

I somewhat agree with you, Cookie. he could have made anything and could have found absolutely anything entertaining. He could have made us into giant meatballs who roll around instead of walk. He could have created a world full of laughter and giddiness, releasing chemicals in the air that made us this way. It is entirely a human concept, I will entirely agree with this. But, remember, we are trying to explain things and when we try to do so, we really only have socially constructed definitions to use.

[Calena]

Calena, do you really think the show will be so bold as to say there is no God? Or that God is not the ultimate good after all?

No and yes. I don't think they'll say there is no god. I the Supernaturalverse it would defintely make sense for god to exist if Lucifer does exist. However god doesn't seem to be the ultimate good. And who knows maybe Luci won't turn out to be the ultimate evil. I just can't see Dean going "oh yeah, mysterious ways, of course, now I'm a believer, god has his reasons that I can't understand with my limited human mind" That would kill the show for me!

I don't know about Eric's personal religious beliefs. I know, for example, that Joss Whedon is a practising atheist.

Religion even infects our politics.

I know. you really should try and watch Real Time with Bill Maher. He on a weekly basis explains the inner workings of the US to me foreigner!
TBH, while it isn't as bad here as in America, religion has way too much influence on politics here too.

I really don't understand why some don't want it to go beyond 5. If YOU don't enjoy it any more at a certain point, than turn it off and let the ones who DO enjoy it enjoy it is my feeling about that. I don't know why people want to ruin the fun for others just so they can have it end wrapped up in their own personal bow. Just watch it to the point you no longer enjoy it and exercise your right to turn the channel is my feeling toward those who feel this way. If you don't like the ending, make your own up (I've done that). If others want more and the show is willing to give it to us, we should have it. Sheesh.

Hm. I probably would have unconditionally agreed with you weren't it for PB having jumped the shark. Did you ever watch Prison Break? I used to love the show, then they did something really stupid, and from that point on the show was ruined for me. I can't remember it fondly. And in a way I feel betrayed, because in it's first season I loved it almost as much as I now do SPN. So I wish they had stopped at S3 instead of ruining the show for me with S4. Sure, I'd have complained if it had been cancelled, but at least I'd have my fond memories! Of course I could have stopped watching. But I still would have known they ruined it.

To the point now: If Eric Kripke isn't in for a 6th season, I won't be very happy about a S6. Ok, the SPN writers are great, but the risk that it goes horribly wrong without Eric is a very real one. While I'd love to have SPN around for 6 or 7 seasons, if the desicion is it going downhill or stopping at 5 I'm for the later.

Hm, I didn't say I was collecting, but, yeah, I'll take it! I promise, I'll use it for . . . you know, atheist activities and what-not!

you mean you'll use it to make the Voice of Reason being heard, spread Enlightenment!

See my post to candy about no surprises ever for God. And those SPN DVD won't fully entertain you for the rest of your life. So, I don't see how no surprises ever from HIs living beings could sustain God forever.

I can't see myself ever getting tired of the gag reels. No, I get your point. Should we feel pity for god, because it must be a boring existence?

Yep, I am a hermit against my will. I'm social phobic. Awful is quite the apt description. (Wish that was my usual sarcasm there, but it's not.)

Really? Well, in the golden times a few years ago, when I wasn't forced to live with my mother, I was a hermit too, but of my own choice. When I had to attend things with a larger number of people involved I really felt uncomfortable, due to my self imposed hermit-dom. Now these days are over, and I don't feel as bad anymore with people I don't know. If I still did I would never have gone back to college, so it has its positive affects. But I seriously lack in what I like to call "peace and quiet time".

So are you officially diagnosed with social phobia or something? I don't mean to pry and you can just ignore me, but in addition to being anti social I'm also dead curious about everything, especially getting to know people I like better, even when it's "just" online.

[Calena]

Originally Posted by candyrose

Ha! That was a good one. It should be interesting to see our Jacob. Do you think he will come across as completely different? I think, from vibes and appearances alone, he could pull it off.

Please get to the Casting Call for Lucifer and say so there. some people have their doubts. Isn't it hilarious that Jacob now rises in SPN! I don't know if you remember, but I made a joke about it after I watched the Lost finale. And now it comes true! I wonder if the SPN people purposefully cast that particular guy. I wouldn't put it beyond EK.

I think in the middle of your age gap discussion with helps you missed this post of mine:
http://forums.buddytv.com/supernatur...ml#post1264030