Angels&Demons in Supernatural

[ExtraCookie]

Hi, sorry I've taken so long to post in here, Calena! I wanted to think about it properly and try to make a post that makes sense. I don't think you're going to get that today; I'm feeling extra tired and out of it. So, just to touch on a few things:

Yep, suzie, like Calena said, Jimmy got asked permission. I believe Claire did, as well. Cas said "She's chosen." Yes, that could mean "She is chosen by me," but, since he asked Jimmy's permission and since he was more familiar with humans and emotions by then and was witnessing his former vessel & his family going through such horrible stuff, I feel sure he meant "She HAS chosen to vessel me." Like I said in the other thread and in agreement with Calena, I think angels CAN possess without permission, but your average, God-loving angel chooses to ask. They're not demons; demons just barge in. I love that there's a distinction.

Is the magic that one angel can use to send other angels away really "angel mojo?" Or is it the same as, say, a devil's trap, which a human can make/utilize? Do we know for sure it isn't something that a human could do? Just another type of spell? Anna was, as far as the show let us know, JUST a human when she did it. She stopped being an angel when she ripped out her grace (*snicker snigger*) and fell, becoming human.

And, again, Lucifer fell, yep, but he was pushed/thrown. Who's to say his grace was taken first? Also, he didn't fall to Earth; he fell under the Earth! He hit the pit. So, maybe his whole falling situation isn't comparable to Anna's.

Again, I'm tired and feel like crap, so I hope I just made some sense. Apologies if I didn't. I'll try to come back later when I'm more alert. Again, cool thread!

[helps]

YED had 2 kids, right? How does that work? Who is their mother and where is she? Azazel was really pissed that his kids got killed. Is that because he really loved them or because he was pissed he was losing? Can demons feel real love?

Great question about Azazel's woman. Apparently he didn't give a birth to two of his kids. I wonder if we ever get to know her. It'd definitely interesting.
I think he was pissed that he was losing against Winchesters. That his plan wasn't working out the way he wanted to and that Winchesters kind of won over him. I'm not sure if he really was that sorry while talkin' about his kids. But he kind of seemed sorry,tho.

What has struck me as strange is that Lillith willingly and knowingly sacraficed herself for Lucifer. She got nothing out of it for herself. Why did she do that? Love?

I think she wanted to free Lucifer so they could fight that battle against Heaven and then rule the Earth. BTW, what is opposite to paradise? Just Hell?
I think it was her motivation. She might thinks she helped to make them all masters.

Have the writers ever thought about this at all?

Oh, on Friday I'm going for the dinner with Eric, Sera and Misha. I'll ask 'em what they think and if they ever thought about it

Also shapeshifters suffer because of lack of love.

Oh I love shapeshifters. They're so poor. I know I know. But they just wanna someone to love 'em. Plus one from s4 was so original.

I can't imagine angels have to ask permission to possess people. They might have to find special people who have it in their blood, but I just can't imagine Uriel asking nicely if it was ok for him to use a person as vessel.

I don't really think they have to! I think Cas asked just because he's a good angel which he's been showing us during whole season. There's no rule to ask for premission,imo. Agree with you. Uriel or Zacharian obviously don't care about vessel. I think it was just goodie Cas who felt like asking Jimmy.

Also wasn't Lucifer some kind of god's favourite? Not to speak of that god obviously needed someone to play the part of the corrupter of his new playthings, humans, to keep himself entertained. Probably Lucifer's rebellion came just right for god.

As for show, Uriel told Cas that Lucifer was their brother and that he was so strong and beautiful. He told Cas that he hated/disliked people - aka God's favorites- and that's why God cast him out. At least Uriel said so. I think that God wasn't about to use Lucifer to entertain himself. I just think that Lucifer did that to stand up against God and piss him off, to convince him that his beloved human beings are just weak worms who tends to be really bad.

My memory is not the best, but I recall Jimmy being asked for permission by Castiel in The Rapture.

I think it was said only in Lazarus rising where Cas claimed Jimmy prayed for that. I'm not sure, tho if Jimmy mentioned actual act where Castiel asked him. Althought thinking about it, Castiel was talking to Jimmy in front of his house and Jimmy said ok, but you have to promise me that my family will be save. So yep, we know for sure that Cas asked. BUT to answer your actual question Suzie, no one ever said angels have to ask.

[ExtraCookie]

Quick thought on Azazel (I freakin' love that name! And hate how most people still call him "YED!" [without even bothering with periods] It's a great name; it should be used!) having children. Since we know demons (at least all that Ruby ever knew) used to be human, it's possible that Azazel and his kids were a human family once upon a time. A evil human family, apparently! After their deaths, they were reunited in hell. Awww, how touching.

And, now that you've got me thinkin' about it, sure, why couldn't a demon or any other "evil" being feel love? Evil humans can feel love; why couldn't that apply all across the board? That makes things more interesting, doesn't it?

[helps]

Ah I so agree!! Azazel is amazing name. I love it. Sometimes I'm just lazy to write it so I use YED, but deffo Azazel is one of the coolest name on the show. Maybe the best one. I also like Zacharian name. The czech form of Zacharian sounds lame, but I like it in english.

Agree, demons can feel the love. How was said nothing is only black and white and maybe all of them are just lost souls and need a hug.

(Argh.... Those girls. They always make so soapy posts and here you go. They're already moaning over poor demons )

[ExtraCookie]

Calena, I hope it's OK to discuss this here. I was going to put it in Castiel's Corner, but then realized it wasn't just about him, but angels in general. I won't mind a bit to move it, though, if you don't think it fits here.

Who's Got it Harder? Angels or Humans? (And Other Points to Ponder)

It's 12:39 a.m. and I have a lot of stuff to do today, but I'm sitting here watching videos (I'm too tired to go to bed!) and one of them got me thinking about this. Don't expect much coherency or proper grammar, phrasing, etc. at this hour! Also, I'm addressing this subject within the realm of the show. I may go outside it to speculate on how it's going/going to go on the show, though.

OK: Uriel and Lucifer, to name a few, are jealous (well, Uriel was 'til he bit the dust) of humans. They think we are God's faves. And I got to thinking . . . well, we should be, right?! God made the angels, basically, to simply be his servants and cheerleaders. Most of the time, as far as we know, they live up in lovely (although not so lovely as we thought, apparently!) heaven with nothing more asked of them than singing God's praises! They don't have to live in this wretched world, with all the pain, trials and temptations, confusion; in short, all the suffering like we do! They get a free pass to heavenly delights; but we have to work for them! Oh, how we have to work! And, all things considered, I think humans in general show a lot of pluck! With what we're expected to deal with? Every day a struggle from the moment we're born? We are pretty amazing creatures!

I can't help but notice that Castiel seems rather innocent; childlike. (And, wow, does Misha portray that well! I never imagined wanting to hug the holy hell out of an angel until Cas came along!) I bet that, up in heaven and when it comes to his past, normal angelic duties, he's been bold and strong and sure of himself and assured of his place. But the Castiel sent to this world to (as far as we know and I'm willing to bet on it) take on a vessel and charges & experience other humans in a very up-close-and-personal way and be personally involved with the human experience for the first time is another story. This Castiel has never been through quite the things he's seeing his charge(s) go through. I'm guessing he was here about 2,000 years ago. Probably on some mission, probably with Anna. They probably both got a pretty good look at the human experience then and it was enough to make Anna (eventually) fall. I'm guessing (JUST guessing!) Cas was feeling some of the same things Anna was. Maybe he wasn't with her the whole time and so wasn't quite as affected as she; maybe he was just stronger/more faithful. But something went on between them. I have a hunch she wanted him to fall with her. Or he tried to talk her out of it; something like that. Whatever went down, I think it was only a primer for Cas feeling what he is now.

It seems that most angels, most of the time, are never put through any sort of trial or temptation; are never put into a position to think for themselves. Never have to feel the way we do. But, for whatever reason, they're clearly ABLE to. (Which is interesting; I mean, why?) And, obviously, they do have their own personalities. I'm even guessing this is at least one reason Castiel was chosen to guide Dean. There was something special about his personality that heaven knew would make him the best candidate for getting through to Dean.

But, in a way, this is awful! Sure, it's all fine and good if you're one of the (apparently) majority of angels; angels who probably never even travel to Earth. Who just hang out in heaven all the time, praising God. Or even the ones who may only ever end up trotting down here to run an errand; you know, deliver a message, "cleanse" a town, smite an army. But for those actually sent to get up close and personal with mankind, like Cas and (I'm guessing) Anna, what a shock it must be! And what a huge thing to ask of them . . . to keep their faith in the face of all they must suddenly take in! In the face of truly coming to understand mankind's and the Earth's plight! At least humans know the score pretty much from the get-go.

I read a post recently in which the poster was taking Dean's label of "spineless" for Cas at face value. I have to disagree. I think that's a very human view. I think, with all that Cas has been through and is facing, he's been far from spineless. All things considered, I think he's downright amazing. He's got a spine of steel to be able to keep on trying to figure out what is right and be determined to do it, whatever it is, even while he's reeling from the shock of it all; and, especially after whatever awful thing his own kind did to him in heaven! (I'm guessing it was truly awful. If we never find out, I'll be crushed! All I'll have is my own little story as explanation! Boo hoo!) To even be able to admit to his doubts and confusion is a huge thing for an angel to do (no wonder he asked Dean not to tell another soul! Aww!); let alone to act upon them. (Yes, I know Dean was being harsh for effect, don't worry.) For Castiel to even consider disobedience, to allow his mind to do its own thing, to go against all he's ever known in his thousands of years of existence is anything but spineless.

This is also why I don't want him to fall. So far, he's staying an angel and bravely facing up to whatever's coming as a result of his actions. That's more than Anna did; she jumped ship. No wonder Cas has been so angry with her! I'm guessing he may've been feeling mostly what she did, but he held fast and kept the faith . . . and she abandoned him (and the entire garrison?). I think Cas has spent the vast majority of his life with faith solid as steel and blinded by heaven's light. To deal with what he is now has got to be a hell of a shock and totally overwhelming. (Which is why, I think, Anna being there to guide him would be a good thing . . . ah, but that's another post subject altogether. One you'll see soon.)

Right, I guess that was pretty incoherent. I'll try to clarify later when I've slept. I just wanted to put it out there so my foreigners would have plenty of time to chew on it while I'm sleeping! (Of course my fellow Americans are invited to discuss! You're gonna get to it later, though.) If I didn't make sense or you need more clarification, etc., just ask. My point is probably not clear; neither are my blurry eyes at this point!

[Calena]

Originally Posted by ExtraCookie

Calena, I hope it's OK to discuss this here. I was going to put it in Castiel's Corner, but then realized it wasn't just about him, but angels in general. I won't mind a bit to move it, though, if you don't think it fits here.

Thank you for making yet again such an interesting post. And thank you for making it in here, because I haven't got much from certain other people despite "will post later"
That said, I don't have much time, because I need to do a ton of stuff, and it's hot and I hate heat, and it's not only hot, but humid too, and hot&humid is a really deadyl combination for me and makes my brain work at 50% of its usual (huge! ) capacity at best. Which delays me with the stuff I really have to do, which is doing a power point presentation for work.

So, to come to the point of my rambling, this will be only a very short answer, but I hope to give a longer one later on (at the latest when winter has arrived and temperatures are bearable again. No, I'm kidding)

OK: Uriel and Lucifer, to name a few, are jealous (well, Uriel was 'til he bit the dust) of humans. They think we are God's faves. And I got to thinking . . . well, we should be, right?! God made the angels, basically, to simply be his servants and cheerleaders.

That's another point why god sucks, because he is cruel for no reason but his own entertainment: Shunning his first creation and making them bow to his second one. Isn't that just mean? I mean when he wasn't satisfied with the way the angels turned out to be - whose fault is that really!!!??? HM???????? Hint: GOD was the one who made them!!!!
About the servant and cheerleaders thing: Are humans more than that to god? he's awfully jealous, he orders humans to kill their own kids for him - that's cruel experimenting with living beings - if humans don't do as he wants he sends floods etc. He wants to be worshipped. Only difference is that humans have to do it on earth under bad circumstances. PLUS god EXTRA laid traps for humans! He purposefully sent the snake to them to seduce them! He lets Lucifer reign freely here on earth.

So to answer your question

Who's Got it Harder? Angels or Humans?

For the majority of members of the respective species it's defintely humans who have it harder. Because as you described, most angels probably never get off the clouds, singing "Gloria in excelsius deo" and accompaning themselves with a harp. So they don't know anything else and aren't subjected to tempation. Not a single human has a temptation free existence (not even the first 2 humans had that)
For particular indivduals it might be another story. Castiel probably has it harder than me on earth. I don't have any god-troubles (only troubles with people who believe in god. )

I disagree with you on Anna bailing, but have to postpone that for later.

PS. It's so funny how you are always calling us foreigners. It makes me feel really exotic, like I lived at some cool and exciting place instead of the middle of Europe.

[ExtraCookie]

Oh, groovy, I'm glad you're cool with my essay--er--post being in this thread! Its title made me feel this was where it belonged! Also, you're welcome and thanks for the compliment!

First: I'm getting a little tired of you people letting "real life" get in the way of your fan duties. That's right, duties! Tsk tsk! For shame! Yeah, I've actually got some real life crap to take care of today and I am not looking forward to it. Heat? You don't have A/C? I know they're not big on A/C in the UK, is it the same there (Austria, is it? My memory sucks sometimes)? I'd die without A/C! I couldn't take it! The heat really gets to me. I can bear being too cold way better than being too hot. If I'm ever expected to live without A/C, I hope someone just shoots me!

Of course I'm being very cheeky (not that I normally use that term in conversation, but it's my gift to the UKrs here) in calling you foreigners. We American posters (who are the minority) are the actual foreigners here, of course! But, apparently, we have a rep for being "rude" or dismissive of people from other countries (like, there are Americans and foreigners), so, since you've all demonstrated a keen ability for understanding sarcasm and dealing with being teased (in short, getting me!), I can't resist messin' with ya! Again, it's my term of endearment. I'm really hoping you smart people realize those kinds of Americans don't represent all of us; some of us really aren't so bad, I promise! All of you foreigners' locations seem really exotic to me. I haven't traveled much and I've only been outside of the U.S. once (to England, which I enjoyed). I've always wanted to travel the world! At least I get to "talk" to people from outside the U.S. thanks to the 'net!

I know, I know! Don't get me started on the God stuff! We could have the longest conversations!! I'm an atheist living in the Bible Belt; I never get to talk about this stuff with anyone and it sucks!!! My family thinks I'm going to hell! I'm truly the weird sheep of the family!

How 'bout an even deeper point about God sucking (I'm so sorry, smiley and other religious people! Please don't hate me! I'm mostly talking about Supernatural God right here, anyway) . . . why make angels have the ability to feel anything other than adoration for Him or to be able to think beyond what they need to to praise Him and carry out His orders anyway?! Talk about cruel! He confines them to a certain realm, forced to live a certain way, yet gives them their own personalities and abilities to think for themselves and even feel!

So, on the surface, the answer to my question does, indeed, seem to be humans. But what if there are angels up there who aren't happy with their lot? Who really are pretty tired of the whole hanging-around-praising-Him thing? Whose voices are getting a bit tired? (So to speak.) Who wish they could do more, be more . . . but don't feel they can? It's like Anna said, they don't have a real choice. It's pretty black and white for them. Humans are given choices every day of various types. I guess the bottom line is the same, but there are so many shades of grey and paths to take, etc. Mightn't it possibly be a worse thing to have you life pretty much exactly laid out for you; this is who and what you are and this is exactly what you must do, for all time, no matter what you feel, think or want? Wouldn't that be at least as bad, in its way?

I kind of wonder if (I know the show probably isn't going to have enough time in one measly season to really delve into the psyche and past of Cas, which is such a shame. If you ask me, 7 seasons would be perfect. But no one has.) Cas (and, perhaps, Anna) didn't have a rep as a "flawed" angel. Maybe he, though a great warrior (if he was; I'm hoping he was), as far as other angels were concerened, over thought and (for an angel, anyway) over felt. Maybe he demonstrated an unusual level of curiosity about & appreciation for humans ("works of art") early on. Maybe he had an unusual sensitivity or something (I don't know if I'm making sense). Maybe that quality that was a flaw to them but is lovely to humans was at least one of the reasons he got sent. They needed someone who had a high chance of connecting with Dean. Besides, maybe most of them weren't exactly clamoring to go. "Castiel likes humans so much? Let him go on this mission; maybe his flaw can be utilized for our purposes!"

I don't know yet, Miss Mysterious, what, exactly, about Anna bailing you disagree with, but I do just want to add that I don't see Anna as a bad guy for falling. I understand why she did it and sympathize. It's just that, well, fall she did. She left Cas and all the others behind. I guess we're supposed to see her as the brave/strong one for falling, but I can see the other side of the coin and see that it's also at least as brave, if not braver, to feel what she did and decide to hold fast to your faith and stand your ground. Cas does seem to have a kind heart and a true love for his father. I admire that and that he, as far as I know, held fast and stayed behind to serve, clinging to that love and faith, trying to keep doing what he believed was truly right.

Of course, when S5 rolls around, my theories will probably be totally steamrolled, but I'm enjoying them until then!

And, yep, I think that an angel in the specific position that Cas is in and that Anna is/has been in, has got to have it harder or at least as hard as humans. They're facing all of this stuff that we take for granted for the first time, after thousands of years of cushy heavenly living and blinding God light. It's got to hit like a ton of bricks; yet they're expected to keep toeing the line anyway. Ouch.

[Calena]

Don't worry I get that foreigner is a term of endearment when you use it. And I don't think Americans are ruder about the foreigners things than poeple of other countries. We have our fare share of problems with hostility towards foreigners, tbh, so it's not like I can put at finger at Americans for maybe not seeing the global picture with a clear conscience.

However when I think of something exotic I think of a land where fairies live, where's there's no electricity, and where great dragons are slain by long haired men with swords. ... Pretty much Ireland, then. (sorry smiley)

Again you are hindering me from doing other things. *sigh*

He confines them to a certain realm, forced to live a certain way, yet gives them their own personalities and abilities to think for themselves and even feel!

Good point. I guess it's for the same reason some boys rip out flies' wings: to watch them struggle and suffer.

Mightn't it possibly be a worse thing to have you life pretty much exactly laid out for you; this is who and what you are and this is exactly what you must do, for all time, no matter what you feel, think or want? Wouldn't that be at least as bad, in its way?

Of course, but in the end angels do have a choice, they can always decide to fall.

I don't know yet, Miss Mysterious, what, exactly, about Anna bailing you disagree with, but I do just want to add that I don't see Anna as a bad guy for falling. I understand why she did it and sympathize. It's just that, well, fall she did. She left Cas and all the others behind. I guess we're supposed to see her as the brave/strong one for falling, but I can see the other side of the coin and see that it's also at least as brave, if not braver, to feel what she did and decide to hold fast to your faith and stand your ground. Cas does seem to have a kind heart and a true love for his father. I admire that and that he, as far as I know, held fast and stayed behind to serve, clinging to that love and faith, trying to keep doing what he believed was truly right.

You pretty much nailed what I wanted to say. I don't know if we are supposed to see her as the brave one, but I certainly see her that way. I can easily compare this to your or my situation regarding religion. Would you think of yourself as brave if you gave in to the pressure your family is certainly letting you feel, accompanying them to church, praying with them, pretending to believe in god like they do? It certainly would be hard to do so, and you would feel horrible on the inside, and you'd probably become a serial killer to release the tension. But brave? Me don't think so. I think it's braver to take a stand, and to cut loose if you can't agree with the rules anymore. Because, and I think you and candy touched on this in your conversation in another thread, it's like going out in the cold world alone, leaving your secure, well known environment behind and having to deal with things on your own. That's brave to me.

However I am not dissing Castiel for staying. I think his doubts just haven't been as strong as Anna's at the time Anna decided to fall. Maybe he's a younger angel, or she was on field missions long before him. But I think that Castiel now pretty much has reached that point, where he's ready to disobey openly and take the concequences. The heavenly ass reaming only worked for a very short time and then he saw sense I give him huge credit for that.

[ExtraCookie]

Yeah, I'm running late here, but . . .

I get what you're saying about Anna and Cas. But the thing is it seems Cas's faith in God Himself isn't necessarily shaken at this point. It seems his faith in his superior angels is what has been shaken. He may well still be clinging to his faith in God even now. It was, in fact, Anna pointing out that making Dean torture a demon didn't seem like something God would want that got Cas's faith in his orders/superiors wavering in a major way for the first time. Not meaning that he didn't believe in God; but meaning that he did and that these awful orders surely couldn't be coming from Him. It's one thing to no longer believe God actually exists or at least that He has a good and true ultimate plan if He does, yet stay the course because you're too afraid not to. It's another thing to truly believe He's there and is good and, ultimately, all means are justifying some mysterious good end and, therefore, stay your course, despite doubts/confusion, etc. If this is what Cas truly believed (and all indications are that he did), then, yes, it was truly brave of him to stand his ground and continue in His service! It's got to be harder for an angel to lose faith that God actually exists & is what He purports to be than a human; they live in His realm and have a looong history of doing His bidding, etc.! I don't think the two compare perfectly. It seems Castiel truly believed; not didn't believe but stayed out of fear or weakness. It seems he honestly believed and, though having trouble understanding why God did things the way He did and, perhaps, feeling conflicted about the details, believed in the ultimate good intentions and plan of God (he even threw out that tired ". . .mysterious ways" line to Dean! As well as saying "There's a God," while looking him determinedly dead in the eye. We've seen pretty much from the get-go that Cas has trouble with eye contact when he's unsure of something. I don't know if the writers invented that or Misha, but I adore it!) and managed to hold fast and keep the faith DESPITE his doubts (about those specifics) and his confusion. If that's the case, then, yes. He's very, very brave indeed!

This view isn't, believe it or not, just my desire for Cas to be as awesome as he seems. It also seems logical from the show's standpoint, because I highly doubt they're going to show us an atheist angel, cool as that would be to people like you and me! Supernatural pushes boundaries and pushes some buttons, but if they went there . . . oh, the controversy! Oh, the outcry! I don't think they're going to do it. They may go so far as to have our darling, conflicted angel become, at least temporarily, agnostic. To end up going through a time of extreme confusion. But to end up straight-up atheist? Forever? Nah. I also don't think they'd have Anna end up being the coolest/most admirable angel of the two, either. Cas may well be the one with the wider view, stiffest backbone and braver heart.

So, I very much understand and sympathize with Anna. I get why she fell. I don't blame her. I understand her pain and longing, etc. But, if things are the way they seem to me, Cas is no less strong as she and is probably stronger for ultimately standing up for what HE truly believes in and staying the course out of that love, that steadfast faith/belief and, yes, that fear (which isn't necessarily weak, in and of itself. Fear is also intelligent. Someone points a gun at me and says, "Don't move or I'll shoot," my freezing isn't weak; it's smart!)

P.S. And, yes, angels have the "choice" to fall, but, as I said, it's not a real choice. Just like the "choice" to follow God's rules or suffer the ultimate torture for all eternity is not a real choice. At least humans have different paths they can choose to obey God's will. There are different religions, ideas, etc. With angels, it's pretty cut and dried. Two distinct paths; one to God's good graces, the other to . . . what? Destruction? Didn't Anna say that she was terrified her real father was going to kill her when she was a kid? Or is there some sort of angel hell? Hmmmm. This show's gotten quite deep on us, hasn't it?!

[candyrose]

Interesting discussion we have here, so whoever brought up this topic, kudos to you.
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Who has it harder?
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It’s definitely a matter of perspective. I think, at least for the most part, people would judge their own group as having a more difficult lot to endure, simply because it is more difficult for them to see beyond what directly affects them. Bringing angels into the mix here, I would be inclined to believe it would rarely be considered that angels may indeed have a harder time. There’s this idea that angels do nothing more than sit on big, white fluffy clouds, occasionally flying down to earth to send someone a special message. Obviously, with Cas, we see that this is not entirely the case. He’s gone through some crap of his own and has had some very important undertakings set before him.
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Someone—I can’t remember who it was—mentioned servitude and duty, comparing angels to servants. Without a doubt, humans have a lot of crap to deal with: They go through their own struggles; experience the stinging pain associated with loss; they walk through the world often burdened by their own uncertainty/doubts; and the list goes on. The great thing about being human, however, is that humans are given free will. They can choose to chase their dreams, make countless mistakes, fall in and out of love over and over again, indulge in the pleasures of life, and even choose not to praise God. They experience a multitude of emotions and can express these emotions through whatever channel they choose. Angels, on the other hand, are confined to a world of servitude in which they are constantly reminded of their duty and responsibility—that is, they can’t really act out on their individuality without fear of repercussion and they can’t put themselves (their wishes and desires) above their responsibilities. In their world, consequence is more immediate and thus they are more conscious of it, whereas humans have the luxury of not thinking about these things until they actually have to deal with them. Related to religion, humans tell themselves they have time to redeem themselves. If they are believers who stray away from the path to God, they can always redeem themselves or ask for forgiveness. I mean, our sins are forgiven if we invite Him into our hearts and ask for forgiveness. And if we are “true” believers, we are spared from eternal suffering in hell. Do angels have that same luxury? Although we didn’t see exactly what happened, we know Cas dealt with some heavy stuff upstairs, due to the fact he was getting too close to Dean and beginning to allow Dean to have an influence on him. It must have been horrible and painful to endure, maybe even a form of torture. Humans are spared from such consequence each time they make a decision or engage in a behavior that does not coincide with what God “wants.”
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Being a servant and not being given a choice is not a favorable circumstance to be put in. If angels were mindless robots, incapable of thinking and feeling for themselves, then the situation might be different. However, we’ve seen (in the SPN universe) that they are not all the same and are capable of experiencing doubt and forming attachments. It has to feel completely demeaning to be expected to praise Him and obey His every order, all while being look at as one piece of a larger unit, instead of as an individual being. And it’s probably somewhat insulting if they’ve never actually seen Him and are taking orders from others who supposedly got those orders directly from Him. So basically, there they are, up and above, and they are expected to praise and obey someone/something they have never even see, someone/something that may not even exist at all. I can imagine that at least for some there is a degree of jealousy and resentment because they are being forced to do all the difficult things. I don’t want to say it’s like being in paradise because from what has been shown, they are basically like soldiers in one big army. They are at work—their entire lives revolve around their work and they are on the clock 24/7 for eternity, without any breaks, vacation, or pay. They have to follow orders or punishment will be handed out, and if they abandon their post or job, then they are seen as a traitor. They are not free; they are basically like slaves. They aren’t praised or appreciated for what they do because it’s what is expected....demanded....of them.
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Yes, with all that has been established, one would wonder why God didn’t make humans, and even angels, better than he did. It sounds simple enough: If he wants to be loved and obeyed so badly, why not program us to be just the way he wants us to be? I guess one possible explanation is that would just be too easy. I mean, God is supposedly arrogant, right? And if he is so wise, like he is so widely claimed to be, perhaps he would have the insight to realize the lack of authenticity such programming would result in. Maybe the only way to really feel loved is if the people/beings chose to love him, even if this choice may be out of fear. Perhaps he is extremely insecure and needs to be convinced, needs to really believe it. Ever heard some guy or chick tell their loved one, “If you really love me, then prove it”? Maybe it’s something like that? Ah, I don’t know. Anyway, if we are all just game pieces to be moved around and played with, making us to be a certain way wouldn’t be fun at all, would it? It would all be too easy, and surely it would get boring after awhile. Someone mentioned temptation and asking humans to do horrible things. I think this goes back to the whole issue of proving oneself, proving that they believe what they say they believe, as well as the issue of trust.