Supernatural 4x21 - When The Levee Breaks discussion thread

[DramaDiva]

Yeah, I need to collect my thoughts before I get all deep on this one but ya'll just discuss away .

[candyrose]

Howdy all........

This was a very interesting episode indeed.

I really liked this episode. It was different....unlike what I had expected....and it really stands out among all the other SPN episodes. It was very much a guided tour of the inner psychological workings of Sammy. I should probably say right now that Jared's performance was stellar in this one. Sammy was on this emotional roller coaster; we were witnessing a rather schizophrenic Sam. He was weak, vulnerable, and questioning himself. His greatest fears were exposed, showcasing the concern he has of what others think of him, specifically centering on how he's always felt different from everyone else. We saw how much he really loves Dean, despite all the crap he has put Dean through. It was so easy to feel sorry for Sammy...it really was. It was difficult not to feel bad for him...sympathsize....and maybe even understand where he is coming from, perhaps even to the point of justifying his actions. However, this feeling didn't last very long because a different, colder and more sinister Sam quickly emerged. The way he forcibly threw Ruby down on the bed was quite disturbing. He tells himself he's drinking the blood to be strong enough to kill Lilith, but clearly it's more than that. He couldn't wait to feed off Ruby; he was impatient and was only thinking of his thirst. And Dean, I swear, I felt so bad for Dean. The promos led us to believe the fight between Sam and Dean was merely Sam defending Ruby, most likely because Dean was trying to kill her. However, now we know Ruby wasn't even in the room. Furthrermore, Sam was the first one to throw a punch, and toward the end of the fight, he had his hands wrapped tightly around Dean's neck as he kept squeezing tighter. There was a moment there where I wondered if he had it in him to kill Dean. Of course, I really didn't expect that to happen. I mean, come on, Sam killing Dean, especially with another season in store.

[smileyone]

I mean, come on, Sam killing Dean, especially with another season in store.

Just a thought here... but LOL.... If Sam actually did end up killing Dean... would Dean come back an angel like Cas? And would Sam & Dean then roam the country like an updated version of Randall and Hopkirk Deceased???? Just wondering..... Cause that would be really funny.... at least in my head it would.....

[Calena]

I just watched the ep.

First things first: Way to go, Jared! Great acting, and I'm glad that Jared now got his chance to shine acting-wise for a whole ep. (Not to say Jensen didn't do a terrific job, too)

Second: They had Sam hallucinating about littleSam, about Mary, why couldn't they get JDM in for a 45 sec convo, hm? It would have made absolute sense if Sam had been "talking" to Daddy John, too.

Bobby, you are indeed the voice of reason.

He couldn't wait to feed off Ruby; he was impatient and was only thinking of his thirst.

What? Are you serious? I actually thought that he was being very strong, impressive and it was a display of great self restraint that he didn't grab Ruby the second she came in.

And Dean, I swear, I felt so bad for Dean. The promos led us to believe the fight between Sam and Dean was merely Sam defending Ruby, most likely because Dean was trying to kill her. However, now we know Ruby wasn't even in the room. Furthrermore, Sam was the first one to throw a punch,

I disagree. Well, I agree that I felt bad for Dean too, because he really believes Sam has turned into a monster, he wants to help him, and he can't. But that Sam punched him after Dean called him a monster - which we all know is Sam's deepest, darkest fear - I won't blame Sam for that. And after that if Dean hadn't punched him back, there would have been no fight. So don't go blaming Sam for everything.

I forgive Dean for giving himself over to god, because he did it to save Sam and how that happened was downright extortion.

And it made "bling" in my head and I know what Cas wanted to tell Dean pre-getting brainwashed upstairs: that killing Lillith is the last seal. But if that's true, why did Cas free Sam? The angels are playing a dangerous and evil game, I'm telling you. Probably they want to bring Dean to kill Sam.

Anna is in for a round of torture, too, I guess.

[nanh2]

Hi all
The epi was great and cant wait for the next epi
i was shocked to see that cas was the one the let Sam out when i saw it first i thought it was ruby but no no no it was cas and i think that this is a good thing couse cas is an angel and he only do good things i hope that the next epi will not be full of crying the first season Dean was badly hurt and he was going to die and then he was saved by his father and john was dead , at the end of season two Sam was dead ,and season three it was Deans turn to die, i hope that the last epi they will not kill the two boys, couse in every season their is a turn for one to die

and finally i think what ruby was saying to Sam about the helper of Lucifer (Lilith) i think it is not Lilith it is Sam and she knows that but she want him to kill Lilith so she can break the last seal which is killing Lilith sooooo what do u all think of that
and by the way i think that

[Terri]

OK who else shed a tear at the end?
We got to see Deans single tear that hes oh so good at lol but it just broke my heart to seee him laying there alone at the end

[candyrose]

Calena, I can't believe you are defending Sam after what he did to Dean. I will agree with you and say Dean provoked it, but Dean didn't want to say it to begin with. He held back his words and Sam was the one who told he to go on ahead and say it. I think Sam wanted an excuse to punch Dean, and that comment did it for him. And I will also throw you a little bone and say brothers do fight sometimes. But Sam didn't just punch Dean a few times. At the end, he had his hands around his neck and was squeezing really hard. A few more seconds of that and Dean could have died. If Sam had killed Dean, would you still excuse his actions?

[Calena]

At the end, he had his hands around his neck and was squeezing really hard. A few more seconds of that and Dean could have died. If Sam had killed Dean, would you still excuse his actions?

He didn't, did he! Sam reigned himself in, which means he is in controll of himself. At this point it's way more likely that Dean will kill Sam than the other way round. If that's what happens you'll probably say Dean had no other choice .
Actually after this ep I'm more comfortable with defending Sam than I have been for a while now. It explained very well Sam's motivation and what he's going through and I share Mary's opinion that Sam is being brave.

[padackles720]

Originally Posted by Calena

I just watched the ep.

First things first: Way to go, Jared! Great acting, and I'm glad that Jared now got his chance to shine acting-wise for a whole ep. (Not to say Jensen didn't do a terrific job, too)

Second: They had Sam hallucinating about littleSam, about Mary, why couldn't they get JDM in for a 45 sec convo, hm? It would have made absolute sense if Sam had been "talking" to Daddy John, too.

Bobby, you are indeed the voice of reason.

What? Are you serious? I actually thought that he was being very strong, impressive and it was a display of great self restraint that he didn't grab Ruby the second she came in.

I disagree. Well, I agree that I felt bad for Dean too, because he really believes Sam has turned into a monster, he wants to help him, and he can't. But that Sam punched him after Dean called him a monster - which we all know is Sam's deepest, darkest fear - I won't blame Sam for that. And after that if Dean hadn't punched him back, there would have been no fight. So don't go blaming Sam for everything.

I forgive Dean for giving himself over to god, because he did it to save Sam and how that happened was downright extortion.

And it made "bling" in my head and I know what Cas wanted to tell Dean pre-getting brainwashed upstairs: that killing Lillith is the last seal. But if that's true, why did Cas free Sam? The angels are playing a dangerous and evil game, I'm telling you. Probably they want to bring Dean to kill Sam.

Anna is in for a round of torture, too, I guess.

Hi! I am by no means a newbie to forums and posting and difference of opinions.

I have to agree with you Calena on some points. Jared was amazing!

I do wonder why he didn't get to talk to john either?

I felt bad for both boys. They both have their faults,and their parts in this. Dean calling sam a monster is sam's darkest fear especially coming from dean, of course he was gonna punch him. same with dean though, I didnt think he'd resist. there's too much emotions and anger for them to be calm about any of it.Dean is scared for sam.

I believe dean loves sam,(hello! who wouldn't) I also believe he has no idea how to help him through this, not right now and not rationally, thats why he agreed himself over to cas(which was not smart) without knowing what to be expected.

There is some hinky stuff going on with the angels and Im not sure what either side wants and what their agendas are with the boys.

[candyrose]

I agree with you about Sam's basic motivations, I think, in the beginning, he told himself he was just trying to help. However, I think it's gotten to the point where things have changed. Sam is not as in control as you make him out to be. He's really close to crossing that line. Yes, you can point out that he didn't kill Dean, but the point is he came pretty darn close to it. He's already killed the innocent person the demon was using. And we know, from everything we've seen and from all the changes Sam has undergone, that this struggle of his is only going to get worse. If that is the case, then we can assume Sam is only going to become more dangerous to those around him, including Dean and Bobby. And you know that really wasn't Mary....so you really can't use that as an excuse.