Supernatural "Sin City" Afterthoughts - Symbolism Soup

buddytv · 10-27-2007, 04:14 AM

Either Supernatural's “Sin City” was the series' hitting on all of its story telling cylinders, or I'm just reading way too much into it. Given the fact that Supernatural has, in the past, effectively used symbolism and metaphor to strengthen its mythology, I'm guessing some of the underling themes of the episode may be worth a closer look. Supernatural certainly works best when it is presenting on multiple planes. I feel compelled to warn you, though, if you don't like theorizing that makes long term predictions, this ‘afterthoughts' is not for you.

click here to read the rest of the article: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/supernatural-sin-city-aftertho-13094.aspx

meimei42 · 10-27-2007, 12:04 PM

This is something that was pointed out to me, but at the very end of the episode, Ruby calls herself a fallen angel on Sam's shoulder. Fallen Angel? Like Lucifer kind of fallen angel? I so think she is trying to turn him darkside.

Guest · 10-27-2007, 01:40 PM

This very subject came to into my mind too when the demon dean trapped said sam was suppose to be the leader. Also another thing worth pointing out is they keep going on about is same really sam aka is the same dean brought back fully same. Would it not be a cool twist in the tail for same eyes to go black and show its not fully sam.

Guest · 10-27-2007, 01:52 PM

Anonymous - I'd hate for Sam not to be really Sam. For one, I don't see why Crossroads Demon wouldn't play fair with the deal, given that she's getting the better end of the bargain. If she brought back Sam wrong, who's to say that Dean truly owes her his soul? -sa@bonasi.com

Guest · 10-27-2007, 01:54 PM

Jon - My interpretation of the episode was very similar to yours. In the poll, I picked that Ruby is trying to turn Sam to the darkside, but it's really all three, ya know? She's trying to turn Sam to the darkside, which she's doing by being there to help, and in the end she's really in it for herself. 'Tis why I <3 Ruby! -sa@bonasi.com

docarzt · 10-27-2007, 02:46 PM

You are so right Sa. an 'All of the Above' would have definitely been warranted.

padackels · 10-27-2007, 03:44 PM

I hope that Sam isnt going to be turned evil. Ruby is in it for herself. Casey/KC did tell Dean that she was ready to follow Sam...maybe she meant follow Sam into the light..back into the Graces of God. Ruby tells Sam that she is a fallen angel ....maybe helping Sam fight other demons will earn her her wings back??? Then Casey/KC wasnt that bad a demon and she told Dean that shed follow Sam...maybe like Ruby shed follow Sam into the good graces of God. Considering that the war between evil and good is the oldest ongoing war maybe what Kripke means my sides must be taken is that some demons are given a chance every generation to ask God for forgiveness and for their wings back so that they may serve God again. Because Sam is such a nice soul with like Missouri said so much power...maybe demons want his powers ...some to control him, and others to follow him back to the grace of a forgiving God...this would then change the balance of both power in heaven and power in hell???? Then I c

padackels · 10-27-2007, 03:46 PM

then I could be 100% wrong...and only Sir Kripke knows the truth.

darmatugan · 10-27-2007, 04:14 PM

I think that Ruby is really trying to turn Sam to the dark side. The demon even said After yellow eyes died, the whole shebang kinda fell apart. Plus, if Ruby turns Sam to the dark side (strange deja vu from star wars here), she may be trying to score some brownnose points for later. I highly doubt she's just trying to help Sam though. Demons don't do that.

meimei42 · 10-27-2007, 05:00 PM

I don't think KC is planning to follow Sam into the good graces of God. She had a whole lot of negative things to say about Dean's God and said that demons had a belief and that was in Lucifer. I think she meant if Sam would have stepped up to take charge of the demons to fight against the human world, she would have followed him. Her whole speech about wanting to take over the world because humans hadn't done such a bang up job with it (war, genocide ect) really doesn't make me think she wants to follow the light of God and have to bow down to humans or "lesser creatures". I think showing KC and the Priest was their way of showing the demons aren't just all death, death, death. They have a belief system, they have emotions (the priest and KC seemed like they were romantically involved, or as romantically involved as two demons can get, and she had mercy for Dean when the other demon wanted to kill him.)

10-27-2007, 05:00 PM	#10
meimei42 Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 11,818	I don't think KC is planning to follow Sam into the good graces of God. She had a whole lot of negative things to say about Dean's God and said that demons had a belief and that was in Lucifer. I think she meant if Sam would have stepped up to take charge of the demons to fight against the human world, she would have followed him. Her whole speech about wanting to take over the world because humans hadn't done such a bang up job with it (war, genocide ect) really doesn't make me think she wants to follow the light of God and have to bow down to humans or "lesser creatures". I think showing KC and the Priest was their way of showing the demons aren't just all death, death, death. They have a belief system, they have emotions (the priest and KC seemed like they were romantically involved, or as romantically involved as two demons can get, and she had mercy for Dean when the other demon wanted to kill him.) __________________ AV by ewlyn on Livejournal

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10-27-2007, 04:14 AM	#1
buddytv Administrator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11,778,727	Either Supernatural's “Sin City” was the series' hitting on all of its story telling cylinders, or I'm just reading way too much into it. Given the fact that Supernatural has, in the past, effectively used symbolism and metaphor to strengthen its mythology, I'm guessing some of the underling themes of the episode may be worth a closer look. Supernatural certainly works best when it is presenting on multiple planes. I feel compelled to warn you, though, if you don't like theorizing that makes long term predictions, this ‘afterthoughts' is not for you. click here to read the rest of the article: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/supernatural-sin-city-aftertho-13094.aspx

10-27-2007, 12:04 PM	#2
meimei42 Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 11,818	This is something that was pointed out to me, but at the very end of the episode, Ruby calls herself a fallen angel on Sam's shoulder. Fallen Angel? Like Lucifer kind of fallen angel? I so think she is trying to turn him darkside.

10-27-2007, 01:40 PM	#3
Guest Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 0	This very subject came to into my mind too when the demon dean trapped said sam was suppose to be the leader. Also another thing worth pointing out is they keep going on about is same really sam aka is the same dean brought back fully same. Would it not be a cool twist in the tail for same eyes to go black and show its not fully sam.

10-27-2007, 01:52 PM	#4
Guest Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 0	Anonymous - I'd hate for Sam not to be really Sam. For one, I don't see why Crossroads Demon wouldn't play fair with the deal, given that she's getting the better end of the bargain. If she brought back Sam wrong, who's to say that Dean truly owes her his soul? -sa@bonasi.com

10-27-2007, 01:54 PM	#5
Guest Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 0	Jon - My interpretation of the episode was very similar to yours. In the poll, I picked that Ruby is trying to turn Sam to the darkside, but it's really all three, ya know? She's trying to turn Sam to the darkside, which she's doing by being there to help, and in the end she's really in it for herself. 'Tis why I <3 Ruby! -sa@bonasi.com

10-27-2007, 02:46 PM	#6
docarzt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: , , . Posts: 1,594,967	You are so right Sa. an 'All of the Above' would have definitely been warranted.

10-27-2007, 03:44 PM	#7
padackels Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 539	I hope that Sam isnt going to be turned evil. Ruby is in it for herself. Casey/KC did tell Dean that she was ready to follow Sam...maybe she meant follow Sam into the light..back into the Graces of God. Ruby tells Sam that she is a fallen angel ....maybe helping Sam fight other demons will earn her her wings back??? Then Casey/KC wasnt that bad a demon and she told Dean that shed follow Sam...maybe like Ruby shed follow Sam into the good graces of God. Considering that the war between evil and good is the oldest ongoing war maybe what Kripke means my sides must be taken is that some demons are given a chance every generation to ask God for forgiveness and for their wings back so that they may serve God again. Because Sam is such a nice soul with like Missouri said so much power...maybe demons want his powers ...some to control him, and others to follow him back to the grace of a forgiving God...this would then change the balance of both power in heaven and power in hell???? Then I c

10-27-2007, 03:46 PM	#8
padackels Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 539	then I could be 100% wrong...and only Sir Kripke knows the truth.

10-27-2007, 04:14 PM	#9
darmatugan Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 58	I think that Ruby is really trying to turn Sam to the dark side. The demon even said After yellow eyes died, the whole shebang kinda fell apart. Plus, if Ruby turns Sam to the dark side (strange deja vu from star wars here), she may be trying to score some brownnose points for later. I highly doubt she's just trying to help Sam though. Demons don't do that.