Castiel's Corner

[ExtraCookie]

Originally Posted by Calena

Hm-hm. No I haven't seen this.
I realized the "you will not like who walks back out" - that was an empty threat, wasn't it? Dean didn't go darkside or anything.

Hm, maybe that was because he didn't have much time. He didn't do a whole lot of torturing (it didn't seem) before Uriel busted Alastair loose. Maybe if he'd had the full time to do all his dirty work, it would've snapped him. Or maybe the horrible news that Al delivered caused him to break rather than flip into evil/crazy mode.

I wish they'd have kept that scene as it was; I really liked it! I was touched enough by Cas's pain & sypmathy as it was; in this scene, there's even more of it and it makes more sense that he'd bother reminding Dean what's at stake in order to get him to do the deed. I don't know why Uriel did that thing with his hand, though. Was it because he was itching to punch Dean?

[Calena]

Please someone tell me that that deleted scene means that the show does intend that Cas likes Sammy too and they'll become friends as well! This is one of my sappy points; reassure me!

Cas and Sam will become BFFs and gang up on Dean. Satisfied?
Oh, why am I so mean?

And that he may feel awful about following the order to release him from the panic room?

I was assuming that he already is feeling awful - hence the letting Dean go from the green room and fighting of the archangel.

Do you think this will occur to Sammy himself and he may feel a bit of resentment?

Hm. Sam is smart, but I see no way to figure it out for himself that it was Castiel who let him out. If I was Sam and I had some enlightment and figured it was an angel who released me I'd probably think it was Zach. But maybe they all will have a "confession session" and Castiel will tell them (Dean doesn't know Castiel let Sam out, does he?).

Or do you think they'll just wrap that all up in their heads as part of the crap they all did wrong and move forward? Probably the latter. It would just be interesting to see a glimpse of the former, just to know that they've had those thoughts.

Well, judging from the ep in the past in S4 and the ep that will bring us into the future in S5 they're screwing around with the timeline Lost-style. And they are not against doing flashbacks, so maybe we'll see some of the TALKS in flashbacks later on in the season.

[ExtraCookie]

No, I'm not satisfied; I don't want Cas to not be friends with Dean! And you were just born mean, not all sweet, pure and totally nice at all moments like ME.

Actually, I meant would it occur to Sammy that Cas could've tried to be there for him. I don't think he or Dean should really give a rat's ass that Cas let him out of the room. That was just one of the crappy things Cas did when he was following orders under the belief that he was doing the right thing. He's already denounced those ways and made an obvious stand for the Winchesters, humanity and God. For them to dwell on one detail of his misguided time would be petty and silly. It's just that Dean had his own angel for about a year. Yes, a frustrating angel who made mistakes under the impression he was doing the right thing, but an angel who was, to some degree, there for him, perching on that shoulder that he said he wasn't there to perch on. XD Oh, Cas. When here was poor Sammy, stuck in a horrible quandry, feeling forced to do terrible things in a desperate attempt to save Dean and the world, and where was any angel to help him? I'm not saying I imagine or want him to be all furious and whiney or whatever, but I can imagine him feeling resentful and can imagine Cas feeling guilty.

But then again, to be very technical this, like the prison break (I used that term just to make you happy, Calena!), was also just one more mistake Cas made during that unenlightened time. It wasn't his orders to guide/comfort Sammy. Yet, we all sometimes feel negative feelings toward someone who we feel failed us, even if we understand why it happened and that it wasn't really their fault. We're only human. And I love seeing the Winchesters be human. It's one reason I love them so much. And why I don't like it that Sammy is magical.

[Calena]

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/matt-...mmer-2228.html

Dean was brought back to Earth by angels (Misha Collins' soulful Castiel is a terrific addition), but as usual, this show is less Touched By an Angel than, say, bitch-slapped

Excellent way of putting it!

[candyrose]

Okay, I'm supposed to be working on a paper I have to turn in soon, but instead I feel the temptation to post something on the forum. There's this note at the top of my BTV page that states I have not posted on the forums in several weeks (actually, it's been longer) and that I should try to engage in a conversation.

I really should be working on my paper, but I'm a tad bit frustrated at the moment. I have way too much to say and not enough mental energy and control to put it all down into a coherent, clearly-defined explanatory paper. Furthermore, sometimes less is more, and when it comes to words, I am sometimes inclined to excess.

Cookie raised an interesting point regarding Sam not having an angel buddy of his own. I do agree that if anyone need an angel, if anyone needed guidance and support, it was Calena's silky-haired Sammy. While Dean was gone, in hell, as we all remember, Sammy went through some major ****. He was all alone and had lost everything he had always known. Furthermore, some self-inflicted guilt, on Sammy's part, must have been taking place. Surely he felt somewhat responsible for what happened, even if he wasn't to blame.

When a mircale named Castiel swept into the brothers' lives, and quite literally into hell to retrieve the lost and nearly broken Dean, Sammy was already, somewhat, a changed man. He wasn't our sweet, innocent, little cutie-pie Sammy anymore. He was Sammy with a cause, a Sammy on a mission, and he was filled with anger and disgust, not only toward the evil beings in this world, but toward himself as well.

Of course Sammy didn't completely consist of anger and blood thirst. There was a part of Sammy still very much alive: the Sammy that missed his brother and wanted nothing more than to protect him and have his love and support.

Well, Dean wasn't exactly supportive, now as he? He was suspicious and just as much taken aback as some of us fans were.

However, we cannot forget this was the plan all along. The powers that be, on both sides, wanted Sam to follow the dark path; they wanted Lucifer to be freed. In order for this to be made possible, the brothers needed to be torn apart; they needed to be separated from each other.They needed to be suspicious of each other. They couldn't be the team, always working together. Now that would have never satisfied the plans the powers that be had in store because when the brothers are together, when they work as a team and each has the other's back, they are nearly unstoppable.

This is where our resident angel Castiel comes in. It was his duty to not only look after Dean, but to also help faciliate his suspicions of Sam. He needed to keep Dean occupied, distracted, and suspicious. Dean was being told he would be the one to insure good prevailed. He would be the one to stop Lucifer.

Sammy, of course, had a little helper of his own: Ruby. Ruby, in many ways, did what Castiel did to Dean. She tried to gain Sam's trust, she encouraged him when he thought no one else did or would, and she, like Castiel did with Dean, convinced him he would be the one to stop Lucifer and insure that good prevailed.

Both brothers were decived and manipulated by others. Both were convinced they would be the one to play the hero. As a result, they started to drift apart and conflicts ensued.

The only really significant difference is that throughout it all, it appears, in my opinion, that Dean put up a fight. Dean was, well, Dean. He fed Castiel that good old fashioned Dean sarcasm and bite on several occasions. Of course, Sam had his doubts as well, but he certainly wasn't bitchslapping Ruby here and there, although I must admit it would have made things a tad bit more entertaining.

As far as the brothers finding out about just how big of a role Castiel played in the outcome of the events, there really is no telling how that would go. I seriously don't see the writers addressing this issue, and, if they do, I don't see them delving deeply into it. I think by now the brothers have bigger worries ahead of them and they have each seen, or at least Dean has, that Castiel has paid his dues, has proven himself, and has probably, once and for all, sided with them.

Castiel, although his actions are questionable, did what he thought was right. He isn't/wasn't like the other angels we have seen on the show. He wasn't/isn't so quick to disregard humans and remain indifferent to their suffering. For the most part, it was more about a lack of understanding and an inability to relate than anything else. However, his interactions with Dean, I think, taught him a lot. I think he was able to channel a part of his being that he had previously neglected because he had been taught to ignore it and degrade it. He had a "higher" purpose to serve. He had to look at the "bigger" picture. He "couldn't" bother himself with becoming overly involved in the affairs of individual humans when there was the end result to be considered.

Now, I should really be working on academic related things. Strange it is that I could type the above in no time, yet I feel like a blundering retard reading through articles and typing a bunch of other crap.

[ExtraCookie]

Candy, you are such a brain! That was a fantastic post! Way to make a comeback! Try to find time to post more often, won't you?!

I don't recall even thinking about the angels plotting to pry the guys apart! But, duh, yes!

No telling what all Cas was told regarding Sammy. His introduction scene with Sammy seemed to portray him as taken aback by him. I think we were seeing him being surprised by having been told one thing about Sammy yet seeing something else when he actually met him, and actually kind of being able to override what he'd been fed somewhat and react to the actual person before him. He even went so far as to, in his own, clueless way, compliment Sammy (which, of course, totally came off as a slap to his face, not that Cas knew it, I'm sure) and give him a comforting, friendly gesture.

I wonder if we'll see Cas realizing the extent he's been played and see him feeling regretful/angry about it; about having been used to drive a wedge between these two people he likes so much.

Again, great post, Candy! Come back soon!

[ExtraCookie]

Oh, NOW BTV gets its act together, when I'm way too tired to try to respond properly to candy's awesome post!

I like to go first, because that way, I don't get intimidated by smarter posts that come before me!

Oh, well. Later.

But I will quickly say that not only did Cas believe what he was doing was right, I honestly don't think he knew that part of his duty was putting a wedge between the brothers, as it's pretty obvious he didn't know about the angels' plan to start the apocalypse until later. We don't know for sure, but it's a pretty safe bet that this is what he was trying to tell Dean. I imagine he spent a little time (no more than a few hours, most likely) agonizing over whether he should disobey his orders or not, then chose to do so and jumped into that dream. He (unless the show is really playing a hell of an annoying, huge trick on us) honestly believed it was his and the other grunts on the grounds' mission to STOP the seals from being broken, thereby stopping the apocalypse.

Let's face it, Cas, just as Sammy was, was a major pawn and was played the fool big-time. I don't see how we can't see the both of them feeling mightily embarrassed and ashamed on Thursday. And whenever it is you foreigners see it.

Ooh, you may have to wait a day or so to read my posts about it, right? So you don't get spoiled?

I know no one here is shocked that this is what I call a "quickly" addressed subject.

I'm glad the forum's back, of course.

[smileyone]

I'm glad the forum's back, of course.

Back??? But is it really back??? I am still having trouble logging onto threads... etc... I really missed these threads the last few days... I actually took an early night the other night because of it.... more sleep then needed... I'm still feeling it now....