Castiel's Corner

[Calena]

For all she knew he could have been lying in a ditch somewhere, dead. He could have been wandering the streets, with no place to go, no food to eat, and so on. He could have even been out of the streets, hurting people. The point is she didn't know and chose not to do anything about it!!! You don't do that to people you love and/or are concerned about.

Ok, that's a good point. Maybe she did alert police or hire private investigators, that we don't know about?

Will think on it, but really have to go to bed now!

[ExtraCookie]

Really? You think she had a point with him calling from a nut house? If he was as off his rocker as she thought he was, she should've naturally assumed he may've gotten to the point that he didn't even know his own name; let alone her or her family. For all she knew, he didn't even voluntarily go to one, but was taken to one by police or whoever after being found in the street somewhere. She was just assuming he was able to when she shouldn't have, is my point. Of course if she knew he was able to, she'd have a point. But she didn't.

As to Claire, again, he'd never demonstrated anything dangerous. And he was sitting there, being perfectly calm and rational and apologetic and pathetic. *shrug*

Free will? What free will? Exactly. That's one of the things about religion I don't get. To say, "You can choose to obey me or not; it's up to you. But, if you don't obey me, you will be subject to DIRE punishment," is NOT free will. Why anyone thinks it is is beyond me. That's how God operates. I can't think of an example (scriptural) where someone "chose" to disobey and didn't suffer for it. I'm no expert on the subject, though. If you can, let me know!

If it were me, I wouldn't just "go back to the things were" when he showed up, either. Too clear the way things were is all over now. But, if you really loved the man, how could you not want to at least hug him & be gentle with him and make sure he's OK before grilling him?!!

I meant that things were probably fine between them until Cas first appeared in his life. That was probably the point she started failing at wifedom, in my opinion.

Why couldn't they have killed Jimmy? Cas could've kept his body, so we'd still have Misha. That's what I was questioning. Ruby took a corpse (unless the heart hadn't stopped yet; I don't remember) I just wonder why Cas couldn't take Jimmy's corpse.

Why would we have to see devout or God-sucks Jimmy? Jimmy's on a new path, now. He's chosen again. There's character development potential. And he's darling!

Right, that's who I was quoting when I typed the "Prayed for This" line. That's why I have a prob. Jimmy did not, in fact, pray for possession. Cas said he did, but we saw that he didn't. He merely agreed to it. He didn't know what Cas was after; he had to ask. He did, Cas told him, Jimmy agreed. Not the same as praying to be possessed.

Yep, Cas sure did do that. I don't know if "tricked" is the word, but he was fresh out of Bible Camp and scared straight into following orders. Sucks. And I still love him.

[ExtraCookie]

Originally Posted by Calena

Ok, that's a good point. Maybe she did alert police or hire private investigators, that we don't know about?

Will think on it, but really have to go to bed now!

Yep, guys, according to her, she did look for him. She said, "We stopped looking for you," so that means there had to have been a start. They looked, didn't find, presumed dead. Doesn't someone have to be missing at least a year before that happens? I thought he'd been missing not quite a year. Cas entered his life one year before the events of "The Rapture." And Cas didn't vessel him for a while. Hm. I should research this.

Ah, there again! How could you stop looking for your beloved after a measly year (or even less than)?!! I'm sorry, but if she's considered a good wife, then I'd be an awesome fantastic wife!

[GuardianAngel1]

Hey guys, great thread.
Castiel, of course, is one of my favorite characters in the whole series. I sympathize with wanting to see him have more screen time, but I think Kripke was having trouble deciding on what he could or could not do with the angels. Obviously, since lucifer is now free, and Castiel (assuming he survives the archangel) has gone against the grain, I'm assuming that he a few others will end up helping Sam and Dean beat the crap out of Satan, like an angelic guerilla force, while at the same time either avoiding or also kicking some serious Zach tushy.
Might also end up convincing some serious Zach tushy that he's entirely in the wrong...who knows.

Not sure how that will play out, but I am certain that Kripke wouldn't destroy Cas (yet), since he is far more popular than anitcipated...and we would all be seriously ticked about it. And besides, Castiel still has faith that God exists, and who is Kripke to give up an opportunity like that in the final season to introduce the Almighty?
The suspense is already killing me....

[ExtraCookie]

Hi there, GuardianAngel1! Glad ya like my thread!

I agree with your post, yep! And, nope, Cas isn't going anywhere. You do know Misha is signed on as a "regular" now, right? All we have to do is hope that no other political person captures Misha and holds him prisoner when it's time for him to start shooting!

So, yep. Cas (and, I'm assuming, his fellow "grunts") kicking Lucifer ass, Cas probably avoiding and maybe kicking Zach ass, maybe meeting/hearing from God, yep.

But I think (and truly hope) we'll get more than this, too. There's so much to see of Cas as a being now. An angel having a crisis of faith? Basically losing the only life he's ever known? Throwing his lot in with humans against angels he's probably known all his life? Perhaps no longer feeling sure there is a god and wondering, if there is, what in the world His wishes would be? Trying to deal with living in this world? Plus we still don't know the stories of his rescuing Dean from hell or what "Bible Camp" was like. AND Jimmy's still inside him! Yeah. He's rich with potential and I hope the writers tap it properly. I can't wait!!

[candyrose]

She thought he was dead. He said he was in a mental institution. She had a point about there being [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]phones[/color][/color], imo. Although I would think that if someone wandered into such an institution the staff would hopefully try to inform their family, but that's not the point here.

For someone who thought her husband was dead, she sure didn't have much of an emotional reaction to seeing him.

If she had really, really looked for him and he had been in a mental institution, I would think it would have not been as hard to find him. Even if the staff had not informed the family, hiring a private investigator or getting the police involved would have surely led to his whereabouts being revealed. I'm honestly a little surprised she didn't come across as being more skeptical when he informed her that he had "sought help" and that was the reason why he had been gone.

Do you mean when he came back or before he left? Before he left, what should she have said? Yes honey, let that angel possess you, that's a swell idea? After Jimmy came back he himself thought it was a bad idea to have agreed to being a vessel.

I don't think that's what she meant. When you really love someone and care for them, you try to show a little understanding and sympathy....and to be there for them...to be supportive....even if you cannot fully grasp your mind around what they are going through. It doesn't have to make sense to you in order to be there for the other person.

[ExtraCookie]

I don't think that's what she meant. When you really love someone and care for them, you try to show a little understanding and sympathy....and to be there for them...to be supportive....even if you cannot fully grasp your mind around what they are going through. It doesn't have to make sense to you in order to be there for the other person.

Yep! Also, she didn't know about Cas wanting to possess Jimmy, so she couldn't support nor not support that decision. Like Candy said (in so many words), though, she could've at least opened her mind and tried to understand his claims of angelic contact; esp. in light of the boiling water incident, and done more for him than just insist he take pills & threaten to leave & take his lil' girl away. Ya know what? Cas should've just pulled his tricks with electricity while she was around at Jimmy's request! Wouldn't that have just solved all kinds of problems?! Cas really has got to brush up on his people skills! And Jimmy shouldn't have been too wussified to ask Cas for a demonstration so his wife wouldn't think he was nuts! Ahh, why don't the writers ever consult me?! Ooh! But, then again, maybe Cas thought it would be better that way; that it may be less painful for her if she didn't know what was really going to happen to her man. Maybe he thought her thinking he was nutty and gone/dead would be less painful than that he'd been possessed and, basically, stolen by an angel! Hmmm....deep, show, deep!

I do want to somewhat amend what I said about the clinic, though. He did say he wanted to get himself straight before he came home. So, yeah, if I were her, I'd feel bad that he didn't call me when he could. BUT she couldn't know for sure if he was in that state of mind the whole time; he didn't say. And I'd like to think I could at least somewhat understand him not wanting to confront me until he was better. In any case, a little sympathy, compassion and tenderness was called for when he got home. She could've grilled him for details & expressed her negativity later. I also realize there are only so many minutes in the show, so they couldn't go into everything. Also, we don't even know exactly how much time had elapsed between Jimmy showing up and the grilling scene. Although, it couldn't have been more than a few hours, right? They hadn't had supper yet.

I really do get your points, Calena. And I truly do understand that she'd have felt some bitterness and anger at his absence. (Although she should've felt it at the situation, not at him. How do you get mad at someone for going crazy?!) But I'm just saying that if they had ever had the marriage that Jimmy's attitude toward her seemed to convey they had, and under the circumstances (those being she thought he was psychotic), her overall reaction to his return should've been tenderness and concern. Sure, she should've been shocked and taken aback (I would be too). And wanted to ask questions. And let him know what the ordeal had put her through (although you'd think she'd care more about what he'd been through). But those things should've been secondary and put of 'til later, IMO. Call me crazy (and I won't deny it), but if I had a husband I loved dearly and he became psychotic and then he vanished & was presumed dead, if he showed back up on my doorstep one day, the main things (and first things) I'd want to do would be grab him, make sure he's OK, and take care of him. *shrug* Again, maybe I'm too sensitive.

Don't y'all just love how a fictional TV show can prompt detailed, analytical discussion?! We're dissecting the behavior of a fictional character we only knew for several minutes! Supernatural fans are freaky! I'm thankful for our talented writers and actors for messing with us like this!

[candyrose]

Nope, Cookie, that is not being too sensitive. After all he was presumed to have been through, I would have expected the somewhat cliche of opening the door, staring in disbelief for a few seconds, getting a little teary-eyed, and then jumping into his arms. The sudden shock of seeing him, when he had previously been thought to be dead, would have surely resulted in some sort of automatic emotional response. When something like that happens, I would think the moment would be too overwhelming to really think clearly enough to go into discussion mode--she would have been more reactive than anything else.

She did seem more concerned about what she had been through opposed to what he had been through. It's rather self-centered and not the way a wife (or husband) should be.

I wonder what Cas was thinking. Do you think it would have really been better if she had not known the truth? It's interesting how it all did finally come out in the open and she was convinced. It isn't like being completely oblivious would have kept them insulated from the situation. Surely it had to have at least been anticipated that something like that would happen, that they would be put in danger, that if Jimmy were given (had) the chance, he'd go back home.

[Calena]

I have to comment on something right now, before I even read the rest of your posts:

Originally Posted by candyrose

I don't think that's what she meant. When you really love someone and care for them, you try to show a little understanding and sympathy....and to be there for them...to be supportive....even if you cannot fully grasp your mind around what they are going through. It doesn't have to make sense to you in order to be there for the other person.

Originally Posted by ExtraCookie

Yep! Also, she didn't know about Cas wanting to possess Jimmy, so she couldn't support nor not support that decision. Like Candy said (in so many words), though, she could've at least opened her mind and tried to understand his claims of angelic contact; esp. in light of the boiling water incident, and done more for him than just insist he take pills & threaten to leave & take his lil' girl away.

Hear, Hear!
And now explain to me, my "Sam WHAT are you doing" - on the side of Dean friends, why does this not apply to Dean, the whole be understanding, try to sympathize with what your loved one is going through thing? HM? Sam could have been right, you know!?

GA, would you please be so kind and elaborate a bit on the free will thing? How is "if you don't love me most, to the extent of being willing to sacrifice your kid I will throw you into eternal hell" a chance to exert free will rather than extortion?

[candyrose]

Hear, Hear!
And now explain to me, my "Sam WHAT are you doing" - on the side of Dean friends, why does this not apply to Dean, the whole be understanding, try to sympathize with what your loved one is going through thing? HM? Sam could have been right, you know!?

Um, because the situation is different, my sweet friend. First, Dean actually showed emotions! Heck, he showed more emotions this season than we've seen in all the seasons combined. No, Dean didn't understand Sam, but he eventually started to try to reach out to Sam, to let him know he was there, and, unlike this horrible wife of Jimmy's, he told Sam they would get through it together! Emphasis on TOGETHER. Sam, however, wanted to deal with it on his own because he thought Dean was too weak. Plus, I think Sam felt obligated to do it alone, like it was his responsibility and he really shouldn't drag Dean along for the ride. And, please remind me what happened in the end? Oh, that's right, Dean went after Sam and kicked some major ass, basically saving the day. Wahoo for Dean, but this isn't his thread, so I will drop it.

GA has already explained free will a gazillion times. We are given the options; we know what's in store if we choose a certain path, generally speaking. God gives us a choice. We either love him and walk that path, or we don't and we go to hell, our souls suffer. As much as it pains him to see us suffer and essentially throw our souls into the pit, he gives us a choice. He doesn't drag us along, forcing us to love him. Plus, when sacrificing the kid, hypothetically, we are proving that we trust in God and believe in a heaven. If we believe in heaven, we know that once the child is sacrifice, they will be with his or her father and be at peace. It's about trust and faith, or so it is argued.