Castiel's Corner

[ExtraCookie]

I'm sitting here pondering the behavior of Amelia Novak. I'm wondering what was so great about her, anyway? Let's see: Her husband is going through something major. Something she even sees proof of, but doesn't even consider believing him? She walked in on the guy holding his arm in boiling water and saw for herself it was undamaged (how'd they do that effect, anyway?! I know air bubbles were involved, but how'd they fake the gas flame? It was cool)! Now, I know it's possible for humans to get hurt without getting hurt (!) to a degree. I've seen those people in those other countries (?? I forget where!) who skewer themselves, etc. without bleeding much and all that. But holding your arm in fully-boiling water for an extended period without it even getting pink?! Come on! That would have to at least give me pause! He tries his best to explain everything to her; even calls her out on her faith (good for you, Jimmy!), and she still refuses to try to understand.

Then, her troubled (but seemingly sweet) husband goes missing; is presumed dead. Now, for any wife who truly loves her husband, this has got to be about the most devastating thing that could happen. You'd be eaten up with grief and agony. You'd miss him like crazy and would do anything to see him again. You'd drive yourself nuts wondering what you could've done differently, what happened to him, if he really was dead and, if so, what had he gone through before it happened? Then, miraculously, she opens the door one day and he's there! Does she burst into joyous tears, grab him and cling to him for all she's worth? Nope. She just stands there, seeming almost annoyed that he dared to come home! "We thought you were dead and had moved right on; now we're going to have to rearrange everything! Thanks a lot!" Are you kidding me?! If that were my man, I'd just be so happy to see him and overjoyed he's alive! And, instead of grilling him and scolding him for not calling me, I'd be making sure he was OK, comforting him and apologizing for not being there for him like I should've been! As to calling, the man said he'd been in a nut house! Didn't she realize that could've meant he'd been too nuts to call her? Is she stupid? "Well, you could've taken a break from your raving, angelic delusions and picked up a phone!" "Hi, honey. Listen, I'm too crazy right now to come home; I'll see ya when I get better."

And he wanted to see his daughter (which was so freakin' sweet), who wanted to see him, and she said no! It's not like, as far as we know, he'd ever exhibited any actual dangerous behavior!

Then, after he'd been shot, did she rush to his side, crying and trying to help him and figure out what was going on? Nope. She just stands there, staring at him and her daughter and husband, who is clearly dying, not a tear in her eye or sign of distress on her face. (She seems to have known Cas was in Claire, though damned if I know how. I guess we're supposed to assume one of the guys told her off camera.) What?! I'd have rushed to him as soon as I could! Had someone dial 911! Held him off of that floor! Sammy and, especially, Dean were expressing much more emotion than she was! You'd have thought Jimmy was Dean's man instead of hers, judging by the expressions! (Don't get slashy on me here!)

I know, I know, she had to have been in some degree of shock. She'd just been possessed and exorcised. She'd had a lot of realizations to deal with all at once. Blah blah. Don't care. Nothing short of coma or other immobilizing physical impairment would've kept me from going to him and being upset over what I was seeing if I'd been her!

And then Cas repossesses Jimmy. She knows he's still in there. Does she bother to say anything to him?! To hold him (Cas doesn't seem to like being touched, but I bet he'd have tolerated it for her & Jimmy's sake), say goodbye, thank you, I love you, anything? Nope.

Who wrote her part? A man, surely. Had to've been. Ladies, am I the only one who thinks Jimmy probably deserved better? Maybe I'm just too sensitive! The more I think about it, the more I don't care if he ever sees her again. I do want him to see Claire, though. She seems like daddy's awesome little girl.

[Calena]

So, I caught up with this thread now.
Just a few short thoughts from me before I go with my doggie:

Cas and mind reading: We know from both "Lazarus Rising" and "Lucifer Rising"--and, ooh, I just now made the realization that they--what to call it?--closed a circle? Completed a circuit? Went retro? Mirrored? It's late, I'm ineloquent, I hope you understand me! The show loves to do that!

The adressed that in "The Monster at the end of the book" - it's called literary symmetry. I didn't know that before. SPN is truly edutainment! I think Sam sleeping with a demon and Dean sleeping with an angel was literary symmetry of sorts, too.

Which leads me to the next point: Anna + ?
Personally I can't begin to convey how freaking COOL I think that Dean slept with an angel. Fallen she might have been, but an angel still. I know it isn't how the show works, but I'd love for Anna and Dean to become a couple. I'd prefer DeAn (Their initials spell his name! That's a sign!) to CaAn.
Misha said at the con that if he could write an ep he would have Castiel find out about sex and have him be sex-crazed for the whole of the following ep. (see, I remember things from the Con!) IDK, Castiel pursuing love interests or behaving like Dean in season 3, sleeping with anyone who wasn't up in the trees at a count of 3 doesn't really excite me. I know what you are saying: "Cal are you out of your mind, you can't pass up sex scenes with Misha!"
My point is Dean is sooooo awesome that he is the one human who can be in a romantic relationship with a real angel.

About the percentage who can take claim for the awesomness of the portrayal of Castiel by Misha:
People 80-Misha and 20-writers that is unfair towards the writers. The cool, brilliant, awesome introduction Castiel had alone has to bring the writers in at 40%. Not to say Misha didn't pull it off brilliantly, but the lights flickering, the shadowy wings, the getting stabed by The Knife and not batting an eyelid, the writers came up with all these things. When Castiel came in the door I was like "I love this new character. That is such a cool demon" And I think we can give the writers and Misha 50 percent credit for that scene each.

About all the Anna bashing that is going on: Anna has my deepest respect for having been bold enough to fall and having been courageous enough to take back her grace, even though she knew what to expect - no emotions and eventually heavenly ass reaming. She felt something was missing when she was an angel, then she got what was missing - emitions - so going back to being an angel must have been a very hard desicion.
When she was looking at Castiel like that she was imo fully within her rights, because Castiel at that time was a good little soldier, who hadn't been courageus enough to fall.
I agree about being dead curious about the Castiel and Anna history. If that doesn't get revealed before the series is over, I'm gonna drag Master Kripke to the UK and pull his fingernails out until he tells me!

Absolutely agree! I just have to add: Master Kripke, don't you ever dare to kill Castiel off or replace Misha!! *see, some actors are scared to even say out loud his name, I'm even making a deals with him,lol*

I hope he'll follow your orders! I don't think they'll remove Misha from the show, I think they are tremendously happy the fans love him as they do. And of course they won't kill Sam or Dean permantely unless it's in the very last ep.

I agree with candy about Dean having been Castiel's main priority. When he wasn't with Dean he was doing his best to prevent seals from getting broken all the while evil Uriel did his best to have them break.

[candyrose]

I generally agree with your observations, Cookie. I thought her behavior was rather strange, to be honest, and it didn't fit well into the mold of a loving wife. First, she was completely skeptical of everything he told her, despite claiming to be a religious person herself. One would think a devout follower would be less difficult to convince than others. Even with religious beliefs not taken into consideration, her behavior still seems a little off. I would assume she would know her husband well enough to realize something wasn't quite right with him. Furthermore, the fact she was married to him and had a family with him should indicate there is a mutual trust between the two of them and that they could read each other fairly well.

Aside from her complete skepticism, which is putting it lightly, by the way, I would have personally expected her to be more patient and understanding. She didn't really seem all that concerned about what he was going through, nor did she take an active interest in ensuring that he got whatever help and support he may have needed, or at least appeared to be in need of. Even if the whole thing was simply an elaborate delusion on her part, she still should have reacted a little different, instead of being quick to ignore him and not being concerned with his long absence.

He did deserve better--I think anyone would. It makes me wonder what kind of relationship they had prior to his angel business.

[smileyone]

Furthermore, the fact she was married to him and had a family with him should indicate there is a mutual trust between the two of them and that they could read each other fairly well.

There are plenty of marraiges out there that exist solely for the sake of it..... they're dragged out because neither one will not leave the situation.... just because they were married and had a kid together, does not automatically mean that they understood each other well.... and more so that they were together in their thinking!.... It's at these times when you can be at your most alone, even facing the other in a locked room!!! ... I dunno.... maybe they had gone past the whole 'I Love You' stage.... settled down into normality.... and she was just past caring.... ???

[Calena]

Argh, I wanted to comment on Mrs. Jimmy, too, but forgot. I somewhat disagree with you candy & Cookie.
First I think smiley made and excellent point.

Second, yes, Mrs. Jimmy supposedly was faithful and devout, but what if that was only a pretense, because she was living in one of these communities where you either appear to be faithful, or you are out? What if deep inside she was smarter than to believe the whole mambo-jambo?

Third: Didn't she have an affair/relationship with that buddy of Jimmy? So maybe her strongest emotion after seeing her husband on the doorstep was guilt, which made her act distant.

Fourth, even if he she believed he was possessed by an angel, I fully understand her for still being angry about him abandoning her. Because it is kinda selfish, praying to be a vessel for an angel, when you have a family who love you and who depend on you. I could now go into a rant about a jealous god who demands people love him more than their own children, but I think ya'll have heard that from me before.

I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but it fits in here: People said that they would like to see more of Jimmy. I really don't. I feel that Jimmy's story has been told and is over. He was a devout Christian who got what he prayed for, found out it isn't so cool after all to be a vessel for an angel, and ok, at last heroically saved his daughter from the same undesirable fate, forgoing paradise.
Castiel on the other hand - his story is really just getting very interesting!
The one reason why I'm not 100% opposed to more Jimmy is that it would let Misha flex his considerable acting muscles.

Darn, my keyboard is slow tonight!

People, check out my new sig, isn't it AWESOME!


I am just rewatching The Rapture. 15 mins in Mrs. Jimmy actually prooves my point. Jimmy says being chosen by god is the most important thing that ever happened to him. To which Mrs. Jimmy, quite rightfully I might say, answers "I thought we were the most important thing that's ever happened to you". So basically with this statement Jimmy left her, because he told her god was more important to him, and would you have asked from her to willingly be second place in her husband's life?
(And insert here patented Calena rant about the jealous god )

I'm now gonna continue watching.

No one but Dean should ever call Castiel Cas. Dean and Cas are buddies, but for everyone else, including Jimmy and Sam, it's just plain disrespectful.

I didn't realize the first time how mightily cranky Sam got on demon blood turkey.

I really like how Jimmy realized what a big mistake it was to let himself be a vessel, although in the angels' defense it is nice of them to ask, demons don't even bother asking.

edit: I've finished now.
I can't help but wonder how that would have worked in practise, had Castiel stayed in the little girl. Somehow I think pretending to be human would be more difficult in a child's body.

[ExtraCookie]

Argh! Just typed in a long response and the computer ate it! DAMN!!

When Amelia was defending her faith, she was talking to her husband, not someone in the community. Why would she so avidly lie to him? When he questioned her faith, she seemed hurt and surprised.

I don't know where you're getting the affair. I've seen the ep. several times and never caught anything like that. If you're talking about the possessed friend, he was married. That doesn't mean there was no affair, but I just don't know where you're getting that.

She didn't know if he abandoned her or not! Her husband was, as far as she was concerned, mentally unstable and he disappeared! What kind of cold bitch sees that as abandonment?! If you love your husband, you're terrifed for him in that circumstance! You know he could be in real danger! It's not like he left her a note that said, "I'm leaving you to be an angel's vessel!" All she knew was he was acting crazy and walked off. If that were my man, I'd be worried sick, not mad! Angry at the situation, but not him.

As to "most important," if you really believe there is a God and you've been singled out by him for some reason, you'd better believe that's the most important thing that could happen to you! No one can affect your life like God! He believed and, apparently, so did she. And yet she made it all about her instead of sympathizing with her man. Getting called on by God sucks (at least, that's the impression that I get). She should've been supportive. He also said it was important, not wonderful, great, etc. And he was trying to share it with her.

I bet I know pretty much how your rant would go, Calena, and I want to go ahead and agree with it ahead of time! Yes, I have good psychic powers! ooo weee ooo! *creepy music*

As to their marriage, if it were so bad, why were Jimmy's interactions with her so tender? Why is all he wanted was to get back to her? He was clearly overjoyed to see both her and Claire. Why'd he say that they were all that mattered? Why did Amelia tangle with a demon to save him? And seem genuinely sorry and desperate not to leave him in the Impala? Yes, she was possessed, but Jimmy seemed to completely buy what she was selling, so I'm guessing the demon was reading what was in her heart. They do that to get to people. Nope, I'm guessing things were pretty sweet for Mr. and Mrs. Novak until Cas came along and barged in. When it came down to it, she didn't have enough faith or selflessness to be there for Jimmy.

I'm bummed you don't really want to see Jimmy anymore, Calena. I think Jimmy adds more story potential. More depth. He could add more to Castiel and his story. He could affect how he feels and acts. He's HERE, I don't want him to be ignored. The writers could've killed him off, but didn't, and that took balls. Killing him would've been the easy way out, but they didn't take it. I hope they follow through with that and we see more of/hear more about him. I don't need it to happen frequently. Just a mention here and there; perhaps a couple or so appearances over the life of the show would satisfy.

I disagree about the nickname. I think both Winchsters (Cas doesn't have the same bond with Sammy as Dean, but there's a connection nonetheless and he's Dean's brother, and so I see that as a sort of extension thing) and, yes, Jimmy! I know no one wants to hear it, but, logically, Cas should love Jimmy better than anyone! Esp. after what he has come to understand about him. It'd be wrong for them not to bond better than anyone! It doesn't take away from Dean's relationship, though. It doesn't have to be focused on at all. And I'm really hoping Cas and Sammy bond well, too. Naturally, Dean will always be closer to him, though.

[ExtraCookie]

Oh, really? I have a bit of a problem with that statement. Loosely translated, it's true. But "The Rapture" showed us that specifically asking for angelic possession is not what Jimmy did. What he did was to engage in communication with an angel, do what he told him to, then agree to vessel him when asked. That's quite different, if you ask me! And he agreed to do so only if his family were protected at that! (Which makes me wonder if Cas told him about the apocalypse. If so, that was kind of an offer he couldn't really refuse, wasn't it?)

I'm wondering if the writers messed up here or if Cas and/or God really took his compliance as a request! If so, Bad Cas/God! And, in any case, Cas obviously didn't make it clear to Jimmy just what he was getting himself into. Not to say he didn't try; for all we know, he did, but it's something that a human could understand only so much of in explanation. Hmmm.

And yes, Cas asked, but could he really refuse? God of the Bible has a pretty solid reputation for punishment for disobeyers. He may've even harmed Amelia and Claire! Damn it, poor Jimmy!

I kind of wonder if Kripke/witers haven't bitten off more than they can chew with this religious stuff! But I'm keeping the (not blind) faith!

[ExtraCookie]

I can't help but wonder how that would have worked in practise, had Castiel stayed in the little girl. Somehow I think pretending to be human would be more difficult in a child's body.

Calena, would you quit saying fun, interesting things that make me think and want to reply to?! I'm gonna be here all day!

I've thought about that too! I think it would've been mostly a bad thing! If for no other reason, look at the fights Cas has had! In Claire's body, he wouldn't have stood a chance! I can see advantages in some ways. Being in the guise of a little girl would probably make him seem more engaging, get people to listen to him easier, enable him to be sneakier, etc., but, yeah, good thing (well, not for Jimmy!) he went back into Jimmy!

[candyrose]

Second, yes, Mrs. Jimmy supposedly was faithful and devout, but what if that was only a pretense, because she was living in one of these communities where you either appear to be faithful, or you are out? What if deep inside she was smarter than to believe the whole mambo-jambo?

I don't think I agree with this statement. Even if she had not been faithful and devout, it isn't like she had to worry about what the others in the community thought of her. The conversation was between her and Jimmy--there were no other people around. If she really didn't believe what he was telling her and didn't even believe in God, she may have tried to convince him he was delusional because God doesn't exist. Plus, she wouldn't have defended her faith in the process.

Fourth, even if he she believed he was possessed by an angel, I fully understand her for still being angry about him abandoning her.

I don't think so. It isn't like one day he packed his bags and left, never once calling to tell her what was going on. It isn't like it happened out of nowhere, with his wife having no idea what had been going on. She thought he was delusional and in need of psychiatric treatment. For all we know, she could have thought he was a danger to himself and to others. Yet, she let him leave and didn't really make any attempts to find him. It's the equivalent of leaving a someone who is completely mentally incapable, such as someone with a severe psychiatric disorder or mental retardation, alone to fend for themselves. Of course, he wasn't completely losing it and he was in fact possessed by angel, but she didn't believe it. For all she knew he could have been lying in a ditch somewhere, dead. He could have been wandering the streets, with no place to go, no food to eat, and so on. He could have even been out of the streets, hurting people. The point is she didn't know and chose not to do anything about it!!! You don't do that to people you love and/or are concerned about.

[Calena]

Calena, would you quit saying fun, interesting things that make me think and want to reply to?!

you are quite in luck then, because I am about to go to bed. But I have to comment on a few things you said first.

I don't know where you're getting the affair. I've seen the ep. several times and never caught anything like that. If you're talking about the possessed friend, he was married. That doesn't mean there was no affair, but I just don't know where you're getting that.

You are right. I rewatched it now, and there is really no hint at an affair. I just took it because of the way she said to the neighbour "it's not a good time now" - I spun some tale in my head that she meant not a good time to tell Jimmy she had a new lover, but there is NOTHING there to support that. My fault.

She didn't know if he abandoned her or not! Her husband was, as far as she was concerned, mentally unstable and he disappeared! What kind of cold bitch sees that as abandonment?! If you love your husband, you're terrifed for him in that circumstance! You know he could be in real danger! It's not like he left her a note that said, "I'm leaving you to be an angel's vessel!" All she knew was he was acting crazy and walked off. If that were my man, I'd be worried sick, not mad! Angry at the situation, but not him.

She thought he was dead. He said he was in a mental institution. She had a point about there being phones, imo. Although I would think that if someone wandered into such an institution the staff would hopefully try to inform their family, but that's not the point here.
Point is, I can absolutely understand that she was shocked to see him, and that she was careful and didn't just give him a big hug and go back to the way things were before. I give her credit for not letting him near his daughter at first, because for all she knew at that time he could have been a raving lunatic.

When Amelia was defending her faith, she was talking to her husband, not someone in the community. Why would she so avidly lie to him? When he questioned her faith, she seemed hurt and surprised.

She would lie to not hurt him, because he thought he was married to a pious, faithful wife. Truth is, when I was a teenager I lied to my mother about being an atheist, so as not to hurt her (I've overcome that since). Was she hurt? Maybe she was worried, and shocked, and felt the need to defend herself.

As to "most important," if you really believe there is a God and you've been singled out by him for some reason, you'd better believe that's the most important thing that could happen to you! No one can affect your life like God!

That is a good point, but as our resident creationist taught me, god is all about free will. (Hence the angels asking if they can possess one, I assume) So theoretically it must be possible to say to god thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather stay with my family. If god says if you don't let yourself be possessed I'll smite your family, that's extortion, isn't it? There's no free will in that. Hm, gotta ask GA that.

He believed and, apparently, so did she. And yet she made it all about her instead of sympathizing with her man. Getting called on by God sucks (at least, that's the impression that I get). She should've been supportive. He also said it was important, not wonderful, great, etc. And he was trying to share it with her.

I am not so certain she really believed in god, and if she didn't her behaviour actually made sense.

I bet I know pretty much how your rant would go, Calena, and I want to go ahead and agree with it ahead of time! Yes, I have good psychic powers! ooo weee ooo! *creepy music*

Amazing psychic powers! You could make a living out of that! Just be careful some overenthusiastic angel doesn't burn your eyes out. Thanks for agreeing!

Nope, I'm guessing things were pretty sweet for Mr. and Mrs. Novak until Cas came along and barged in. When it came down to it, she didn't have enough faith or selflessness to be there for Jimmy.

Do you mean when he came back or before he left? Before he left, what should she have said? Yes honey, let that angel possess you, that's a swell idea? After Jimmy came back he himself thought it was a bad idea to have agreed to being a vessel.

'm bummed you don't really want to see Jimmy anymore, Calena. I think Jimmy adds more story potential. More depth. He could add more to Castiel and his story. He could affect how he feels and acts. He's HERE, I don't want him to be ignored. The writers could've killed him off, but didn't, and that took balls. Killing him would've been the easy way out, but they didn't take it. I hope they follow through with that and we see more of/hear more about him. I don't need it to happen frequently. Just a mention here and there; perhaps a couple or so appearances over the life of the show would satisfy.

They couldn't have killed Jimmy, because then Misha wouldn't be on the show anymore and that really would have been a shame!
I have seen everything I want to see about Jimmy, because I am not interested in seeing him leading a devout Christian's life, that's boring. The "god sucks" phase in his life we have already seen.

He Actually Prayed for This"
Oh, really? I have a bit of a problem with that statement.

That's what Castiel himself said in the season premiere!

I kind of wonder if Kripke/witers haven't bitten off more than they can chew with this religious stuff! But I'm keeping the (not blind) faith!

Nah, I don't think they have. I am pretty sure Master Kripke has thought this through. He had that 5 year story arc from the very beginning.

I just finished watching Levee, and I am telling you your beloved Cas completely betrayed Dean and tricked him into giving himself wholly to god, all the while aware that he would do the one thing Dean wanted to prevent: Cause Sammy to be "a monster".

And now good night to you!