What is it with the Dean-aholics??

[Calena]

You should! Might answer some more questions for you. Tell me, you say it might annoy you...this conversation does not annoy you, does it?

The difference is that I can talk back to you. The book I could just read, but I have no means of letting the writer know what bugs me about it or where he got it wrong – I could send a mail, but it’s unlikely he’d engage in a conversation with me.
So no, this conversation doesn’t annoy me, although it sometimes shocks me. It is a difference between reading or watching a report on TV about fundamentalist Christians, and really encountering one. For example although I of course theoretically was aware that there are people who think AIDS is a punishment of God and gays are at fault for it, it’s another thing to hear someone actually say (or in this case type) and believe it. TBH, you are a pretty exotic being to me. That said, and I said it before, I’m positively surprised at your “civil” behavior.
Another thing I think I said before, but feel the need to clarify here: You probably hope you can make me see the light, embrace Jesus as my savior, and of course hope dies last, but I assure you, you won’t succeed. Do you still earn brownie points for trying with god and your fellow church members, or does the spreading the word thing only count when you succeed? Probably just trying counts, too.
I am aware that no less than you can convert me, I can make you see reason – and I stand by my opinion that you would lose way more than I would if you stopped believing in god. (see below, my answer to Pascal’s wager)

If Leonardo created Adam, then yeah, I would expect that Leo would get to be the one making the decisions...on the other hand God granted His creation free will, so it's not like we're puppets on cosmic strings. Adam would have the choice to decide his own fate here. In the human understanding, often it is difficult to describe spiritual things...thus we have parts of the Bible where God used metaphors or Parables to explain things. This is no different.

We talked about the free will thing a lot, I still didn’t change my mind. Free will is only good for the one who chooses the action, but not for the ones who have to suffer those actions’ consequences, therefore free will does not suffice in explaining why a almighty good god allows evil to happen. Also the argument that bad things that happen to us makes us grow is, while it’s true, invalid for the purpose you use it for, if no evil existed there would be no need to grow.

Therefore, we can deduce that it's the real deal, and that there were humans around in the Cretaceous. Whoopsy! Time for a new theory methinks....

You choose to believe that. But as I pointed out in my previous answer, it’s not true. Creationists cheat.

And the Museum of Science is completely unbiased as well, I suppose. The CEM was founded by Dr. Carl Baugh, who was one of the Evolutionist Theory's bright and shining stars.

Scientists who are worth their salt use the scientific method. If there was indeed evidence that would render the Theory of Evolution invalid, scientists would do their best to find a new theory. That hasn’t happened yet, plus even if it did happen, it still wouldn’t mean god is the answer.

However, the word estimate remains.

With better technology we will be able to see more of them. Give it time!

It's still unproven theory...not that it would matter. God can create however many stars and planets He wants to.

You still don’t understand the term theory as it’s used in science as opposed to every day speech.
“In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct.”
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/li...faq/cat01.html

An idea that makes it to theory status is at the top of the food chain in science!

Therefore, according to this reasoning, I have everything to gain by believing that God exists, and if I'm wrong, then disappointment is my only gain. If you are right and there is no god, then again, you have nothing to lose and nothing to gain. But If I'm right, and there is a God, then we either have everything to lose by not believing, or everything to gain by believing. So there you have it.

Fair enough to counter Russel with Pascal. On the surface it sounds very simple and brilliant, but when you dig deeper there are some problems with this wager:
1) The assumption that reason doesn’t help in the decision. It sure does. Many bright men before Darwin were uneasy with believing in a creator god, because it brings up more questions than it answers, but they just couldn’t imagine how complex life came to be without a god. Thanks to Darwin reason now has the advantage of knowing how complex organisms came to be. So in order to believe in a god, you have to surrender reason. Pascal died long before Darwin wrote “Origin …” Had Pascal had this kind of information, he might have thought differently, and he might even have been relieved.

2) Say I was convinced by that logic and decided I want to believe in a god. In which one? Allah, Jaweh, Jesus, Buddah, Zeus, Ra, one of the thousand other ones? Say you could convince me that Jesus was the way to go. What branch of Christianity? Catholic? Protestant? Born Again Christian? Pentecostal? What branch of Pentecostal? The one that allows you to use internet, or the one that likes to play with poisonous snakes? So no, reason can’t lead to faith, and I can’t force myself to believe, because even if I wanted to, the sheer number of gods humankind has invented tells me that god doesn’t exist.

Then how did they come to be?

I’ll tell you as soon as the scientists found it out!

15,000 is a lot less than 60 million. In comparison, it is still considered a young earth theory. So what's to say that God did not shift the earth then? In fact, if God did not shift the earth, what did, and why hasn't it happened again?

It might happen again. 15,000 years isn’t that long ago, that seems to be one thing we agree on.

Still doesn't disprove that it happened exactly like it says it did. And if it were just a meteor crash that caused a tsunami, how come none of the legends describe a giant rock or ball of flame before the giant wave? Surely something that big falling from the sky would have drawn some attention.

Maybe people were preoccupied with avoiding drowning and were more impressed by the flood afterwards, or they didn’t connect the two, weren’t aware that the giant ball of flames triggered the flood.
Do you believe the Noah’s Ark story happened exactly like it says in the bible, with all the pairs of animals on it, and if so I’m sure you have a very creative way to explain the logistics, like room for all of them, food for all of them.

You do know that Wikipedia is an open source, where anyone can post an answer to anything on it, right?

Of course, but mostly it’s correct, and about said guy Origen, I also read in a books, so that info’s valid.

Given, there are a few translations that have come up since then that were not written by that order, and are therefore more prone to error, however, they are hardly the majority of text used.

I highly doubt that. To copy a book by hand took ages. Definitely the order didn’t write the majority of copies made.

Of course, you'll find lots of people who don't agree with scripture...how better to pretend that the Word is not infallible than by saying it has a bunch of errors in it? You'll always find people who want to try and make excuses for their reasons, and they will usually throw insults or slander towards Christians for it...it's called persecution. However, this is no hindrance to us, but rather proof that we are on the right track.

Come on, saying that it’s not reasonable to believe the bible is the word of god, because there is scientific proof that there were translations and copy errors, plus it gotten written a long time after the actual events, is NOT persecution. It’s stating a fact. Do you feel persecuted by me?

Regardless, I believe that the Word was inspired by God, and therefore, He would have enough sense to make it easy enough to read,

But it isn’t easy to read. Are you disproving yourself?

however, the proof that the Word is indeed infallible should not be the basis on which you claim salvation anyway. There are often believers who have never laid eyes on the Bible that know God is real.

Is that so? And they also know about the creation, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and the whole lot?

I look forward to the rest of your answers!

I have to find where I saved it on my PC, you will get them, I promise!

[GuardianAngel1]

Originally Posted by Calena

The difference is that I can talk back to you. The book I could just read, but I have no means of letting the writer know what bugs me about it or where he got it wrong – I could send a mail, but it’s unlikely he’d engage in a conversation with me.

That's true! I don't know...you'd be surprised at how talkative we Christians can be!

Originally Posted by Calena

So no, this conversation doesn’t annoy me, although it sometimes shocks me. It is a difference between reading or watching a report on TV about fundamentalist Christians, and really encountering one. For example although I of course theoretically was aware that there are people who think AIDS is a punishment of God and gays are at fault for it, it’s another thing to hear someone actually say (or in this case type) and believe it. TBH, you are a pretty exotic being to me. That said, and I said it before, I’m positively surprised at your “civil” behavior.

Well, thanks! I appreciate the compliment...although, I must clarify something. I believe that AIDS is a consequence of sin, not a punishment. There's a difference. As your scientists would say, "For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction."

Originally Posted by Calena

Another thing I think I said before, but feel the need to clarify here: You probably hope you can make me see the light, embrace Jesus as my savior, and of course hope dies last, but I assure you, you won’t succeed. Do you still earn brownie points for trying with god and your fellow church members, or does the spreading the word thing only count when you succeed? Probably just trying counts, too.
I am aware that no less than you can convert me, I can make you see reason – and I stand by my opinion that you would lose way more than I would if you stopped believing in god. (see below, my answer to Pascal’s wager)

My intent is not to convert you Cal, and it is not my job to save you, that honor belongs to God. My job is to tell you the truth as I know it and let you make that decision on your own. There is no catalog for "most souls saved". On the contrary, if I had not already witnessed numerous amounts of hard core evidence that God exists, you'd have a fair chance of converting me!

Originally Posted by Calena

We talked about the free will thing a lot, I still didn’t change my mind. Free will is only good for the one who chooses the action, but not for the ones who have to suffer those actions’ consequences, therefore free will does not suffice in explaining why a almighty good god allows evil to happen. Also the argument that bad things that happen to us makes us grow is, while it’s true, invalid for the purpose you use it for, if no evil existed there would be no need to grow.

I must disagree here. First of all, without valleys there would be no mountain tops. Free will allows you to persevere through tough times, it's the freedom to choose how you will react to the bad things, for those who cause the action, or for those who suffer because of it.
Secondly, all living things have an innate need to grow, regardless of circumstances...it is simply the that we can choose to let the bad times help us grow stronger and faster, or not.

Originally Posted by Calena

You choose to believe that. But as I pointed out in my previous answer, it’s not true. Creationists cheat.

Hard to argue with cold hard evidence ain't it?

Originally Posted by Calena

Scientists who are worth their salt use the scientific method. If there was indeed evidence that would render the Theory of Evolution invalid, scientists would do their best to find a new theory. That hasn’t happened yet, plus even if it did happen, it still wouldn’t mean god is the answer.

I think that a scientist that is willing to admit he was wrong is worth his weight in gold. Hmmm, gold...salt...gold...salt. Of course they'll try to find a new theory. Why do you think the Egyptians had so many false gods? Every time one would fall short, they would invent a new one. Old habits die hard I guess.

Originally Posted by Calena

With better technology we will be able to see more of them. Give it time!

Prove it!

Originally Posted by Calena

You still don’t understand the term theory as it’s used in science as opposed to every day speech.
“In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct.”
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/li...faq/cat01.html

An idea that makes it to theory status is at the top of the food chain in science!

Au Contraire!
Lest we forget, Creationism has also been termed through scientific means a "theory". Only difference is ours can be proven!

Originally Posted by Calena

Fair enough to counter Russel with Pascal. On the surface it sounds very simple and brilliant, but when you dig deeper there are some problems with this wager:
1) The assumption that reason doesn’t help in the decision. It sure does. Many bright men before Darwin were uneasy with believing in a creator god, because it brings up more questions than it answers, but they just couldn’t imagine how complex life came to be without a god. Thanks to Darwin reason now has the advantage of knowing how complex organisms came to be. So in order to believe in a god, you have to surrender reason. Pascal died long before Darwin wrote “Origin …” Had Pascal had this kind of information, he might have thought differently, and he might even have been relieved.

Pascal's wager is based on reason, the simple reasoning skills that all intelligent beings possess that can discover what is best. BTW, Jesus also lived before Darwin, and he's still right.

Originally Posted by Calena

2) Say I was convinced by that logic and decided I want to believe in a god. In which one? Allah, Jaweh, Jesus, Buddah, Zeus, Ra, one of the thousand other ones? Say you could convince me that Jesus was the way to go. What branch of Christianity? Catholic? Protestant? Born Again Christian? Pentecostal? What branch of Pentecostal? The one that allows you to use internet, or the one that likes to play with poisonous snakes? So no, reason can’t lead to faith, and I can’t force myself to believe, because even if I wanted to, the sheer number of gods humankind has invented tells me that god doesn’t exist.

God has given you the ability to choose wisely for yourself. I will tell you this. No other Religion in the world claims to have a living breathing God, nor one that was crucified for your sins, nor one that works through a personal relationship. Why you ask? Because my God can't be put in a box and labeled. He can't be confined by human ideals. He can't be disproven either...

Originally Posted by Calena

I’ll tell you as soon as the scientists found it out!

You do that...I'll try not to hold my breath!

Originally Posted by Calena

It might happen again. 15,000 years isn’t that long ago, that seems to be one thing we agree on.

Not so, the Bible teaches that He promised never to destroy the earth in water again. Therefore, it will never happen again!

Originally Posted by Calena

Maybe people were preoccupied with avoiding drowning and were more impressed by the flood afterwards, or they didn’t connect the two, weren’t aware that the giant ball of flames triggered the flood.

Perhaps, or maybe there was no ball of flame.

Originally Posted by Calena

Do you believe the Noah’s Ark story happened exactly like it says in the bible, with all the pairs of animals on it, and if so I’m sure you have a very creative way to explain the logistics, like room for all of them, food for all of them.

Yes, I do. There's a reason that God inspired the author to write the exact measurements of the ark. Remember, only 5% of the animals on the earth had to fit. The rest can swim.

Originally Posted by Calena

I highly doubt that. To copy a book by hand took ages. Definitely the order didn’t write the majority of copies made.

To copy a book by hand when it's all you ever do takes months. And like I said, most copies are copies of copies, not the original mazaritic text.

Originally Posted by Calena

Come on, saying that it’s not reasonable to believe the bible is the word of god, because there is scientific proof that there were translations and copy errors, plus it gotten written a long time after the actual events, is NOT persecution. It’s stating a fact. Do you feel persecuted by me?

Well, you're not throwing insults or slander, so that sort of excludes you...I was making a point. However, consider that the word persecution can include anything that challenges faith.

Originally Posted by Calena

But it isn’t easy to read. Are you disproving yourself?

I find it easy enough to read. Plain and simple to me, black and white.

Originally Posted by Calena

Is that so? And they also know about the creation, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and the whole lot?

Sure! That's why we have people like missionaries. There have even been documented encounters between man and God before there was any mention of Him to their people. Imagine that, a living God that lives...

Originally Posted by Calena

I have to find where I saved it on my PC, you will get them, I promise!

I look forward to it. Although, I am in the middle of moving right now, so It might take me longer to reply than usual.

[Tanya88]

God has given you the ability to choose wisely for yourself. I will tell you this. No other Religion in the world claims to have a living breathing God, nor one that was crucified for your sins, nor one that works through a personal relationship. Why you ask? Because my God can't be put in a box and labeled. He can't be confined by human ideals. He can't be disproven either...

I agree with this....this is how I see God to =)

[Calena]

Hey, glad someone actually reads our posts here!
Just a short answer, more later:

I agree with this....this is how I see God to =)

He can't be disproven either...

Neither can a Flying Spaghettig Monster, a Invisible Pink Unicorn or a giant teapot orbiting around earth be disproven. So, what's your point, exactly? That he can't be disproven is proof that he exists? Ok, if so, I insist that the FSM exists, the FSM created the world. Disproove it! And while you're at it, disproove that Elvis is alive. People have personally experienced that he's stil alive, they have met him in the flesh after his supposed date of death. Why is that less valid than your personal experiences with god?

God has given you the ability to choose wisely for yourself.

I've choosen, based on reason and evidence, he doesn't exist. If he wanted me to believe in him, he should have given me evidence.

Douglas Adams put it this way and I a) totally agree and b) find it highly amusing:

"The Babel fish is small, yellow, leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."

(Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

BTW, have you ever wondered why god, who can't be labeled, is a he?

No other Religion in the world claims to have a living breathing God, nor one that was crucified for your sins, nor one that works through a personal relationship.

Not sure that's true (the crucified part is of course, but the personal relationship part. ) And even if it is, again, what's your point?
See, if god created us in another way, he wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble with the crucification. So why again is the fact that he did - or had to, because he screwed up in the first place - supposed to impress me?

[GuardianAngel1]

Originally Posted by Tanya88

I agree with this....this is how I see God to =)

Hiya Tanya! The more the merrier, but be warned...it might be difficult for you to keep up with us!

[GuardianAngel1]

Originally Posted by Calena

Neither can a Flying Spaghettig Monster, a Invisible Pink Unicorn or a giant teapot orbiting around earth be disproven.

Really? So you're saying that scientists aren't advanced enough to pick up a giant teapot orbiting our planet? Interesting...

Originally Posted by Calena

So, what's your point, exactly? That he can't be disproven is proof that he exists? Ok, if so, I insist that the FSM exists, the FSM created the world. Disproove it! And while you're at it, disproove that Elvis is alive. People have personally experienced that he's stil alive, they have met him in the flesh after his supposed date of death. Why is that less valid than your personal experiences with god?

Well, first of all, I have no idea what you mean by FSM, clarify that for me, please. And secondly, Elvis's bones are six feet under, and if you like we can dig them up together and test his DNA.

Originally Posted by Calena

I've choosen, based on reason and evidence, he doesn't exist. If he wanted me to believe in him, he should have given me evidence.

He did. You're alive, the earth exists. He even gave you an entire history book that tells His life story. He gave you people like me to tell you about our experiences, and if that were'nt enough, He gave you the capacity to prove it to yourself. Like I said, you have the option to really dig up the evidence for God, or you can continue to be content with accepting what others tell you is truth or not truth.

Originally Posted by Calena

Douglas Adams put it this way and I a) totally agree and b) find it highly amusing:

"The Babel fish is small, yellow, leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."

(Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

LOL! That would be good logic, if there were such as thing as a Babel fish. In it's place God gave us the ability to learn other languages with our own brains, and also the ability to realize that He has given us ample proof. We simple refuse to accept it. Not really His fault, wouldn't you say? I can tell you that 2 + 2 = 4, and you can refuse to accept it, so in your mind it is not true. This does not mean that I am at fault for giving you the correct formula, rather than what you wanted the formula to be, but rather it is up to you to accept truth as truth and fact as fact.

Originally Posted by Calena

BTW, have you ever wondered why god, who can't be labeled, is a he?

We call God "He" because He appeared on the earth in the form of a male, (which was due to the fact that at that time frame, if He had come as a female, He would have been killed the first time He entered the temple at 12 years old). God is a spiritual being, He has no gender, but this makes it easier for people to understand. For instance, He is also referred to as a Lion, the Rose of Sharon, Bread of life, and living water. It doesn't mean that He is an actual beast, flower, grain, or liquid.

Originally Posted by Calena

Not sure that's true (the crucified part is of course, but the personal relationship part. ) And even if it is, again, what's your point?

Find me one other religion in this world that teaches that you can ask what you will of him and he will answer you, and that he will stick closer than a brother, and that he whispers his love to you in a still small voice constantly. Just one Cal, find one. Then you can answer it for yourself, what's my point? What more could you want? Not even the that "special someone" can do all that, or would even be willing to for that matter.

Originally Posted by Calena

See, if god created us in another way, he wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble with the crucification. So why again is the fact that he did - or had to, because he screwed up in the first place - supposed to impress me?

God doesn't screw up. Everything has a purpose, including the manner in which we were created. I told you once that we can only see a small part of the whole picture, one piece of the whole puzzle. It is difficult to get the full effect of Monet's "Water Lillies" (which is a 42 foot long painting), unless you can see the whole thing. We simply can't see the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing does not exist.

I look forward to hearing from you soon!

BTW, just throwing this out there...if you have anything that you would like me to help you pray about, you can shoot me a personal note, or write it here if you feel comfortable with that, just in case you need it.

[Calena]

I so should be doing other things!

Really? So you're saying that scientists aren't advanced enough to pick up a giant teapot orbiting our planet? Interesting...

Yep. Because, you know, the teapot doesn’t want to be seen.

Well, first of all, I have no idea what you mean by FSM, clarify that for me, please. And secondly, Elvis's bones are six feet under, and if you like we can dig them up together and test his DNA.

But people personally experienced that Elvis is alive! I mean, fossils prove evolution, yet you don’t accept it. Why should the Elvis lovers accept any proof of that sort? It’s quite arrogant of you to say only what you imagine to be true is true.

FSM is Flying Spaghetti Monster. It has a book, too, the Gospel of the Flying Spahgetti Monster, which I own.
This will help you to learn more about it:
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
Pastafarianism made easy:
http://www.venganza.org/flash/guidet...mpreloaded.swf
So, can you disprove anything it says? Anything at all?

He did. You're alive, the earth exists. He even gave you an entire history book that tells His life story. He gave you people like me to tell you about our experiences, and if that were'nt enough, He gave you the capacity to prove it to yourself. Like I said, you have the option to really dig up the evidence for God, or you can continue to be content with accepting what others tell you is truth or not truth.

I already made it clear why I don’t think the bible is god’s unaltered words. The bible doesn’t count as proof. The existence of humans doesn’t count as proof, because, like I tried to show you, humans evolved. No god necessary.

LOL! That would be good logic, if there were such as thing as a Babel fish.

Now read the text again and insert humans instead of Babel fish:
“ Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `Humans are a dead giveaway, aren’t they? They could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."
Isn’t what I put in italic a top creationist argument?

This does not mean that I am at fault for giving you the correct formula, rather than what you wanted the formula to be, but rather it is up to you to accept truth as truth and fact as fact.

That’s what I’m talking about, only with evolution. You seem well-educated and intelligent, why would you refuse to use reason and see the facts? I can only assume you got brainwashed to believe in your imaginary friend.

We call God "He" because He appeared on the earth in the form of a male, (which was due to the fact that at that time frame, if He had come as a female, He would have been killed the first time He entered the temple at 12 years old). God is a spiritual being, He has no gender, but this makes it easier for people to understand. For instance, He is also referred to as a Lion, the Rose of Sharon, Bread of life, and living water. It doesn't mean that He is an actual beast, flower, grain, or liquid.

You say despite being god and almighty and all that, he couldn’t have pulled of The Plan as a female? Or isn’t that rather owned to the fact that society was (and still is) patriarchic?

Find me one other religion in this world that teaches that you can ask what you will of him and he will answer you, and that he will stick closer than a brother, and that he whispers his love to you in a still small voice constantly. Just one Cal, find one. Then you can answer it for yourself, what's my point? What more could you want? Not even the that "special someone" can do all that, or would even be willing to for that matter.

Doesn’t almost every religion have prayer? That’s talking to god, right? So that doesn’t make Christianity special, and it definitely doesn’t make your branch of Christianity special.

Everything has a purpose, including the manner in which we were created.

We aren’t created and evolution is not a purposeful process.

We simply can't see the whole thing, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing does not exist.

We exist, but that doesn’t mean we have been created.

BTW, just throwing this out there...if you have anything that you would like me to help you pray about, you can shoot me a personal note, or write it here if you feel comfortable with that, just in case you need it.

Very sweet of you to offer. I would really love to win the lottery jackpot. You pray for that, I’ll buy a ticket and if on Sunday I’m a few million Euros richer, I’ll give money to your church and seriously consider believing in god.
(BTW, I think I know what you’ll answer to that. But no thanks, I don’t need you to pray for my spiritual guidance. According to you being sick means you are spiritually out of balance and I’m healthy as a horse – so I figure everything’s all right with me spiritually)

[Tanya88]

wow....this is like a big conversation....i cant keep up with this LOOL

[maruja]

I have to say they lost me!!!! Baut i'd like to get back to the main subject: Dean!!!!! I don't really care about his believes anymore, rigth now, I'm totally shallow!!!

[Calena]

Hey girsl! I opened a new thread for this discussion and posted my answer to your latest post there, GuardianAngel.

http://forums.buddytv.com/watercoole...verything.html