Finale -- An Actual Post, not a link

Gartism · 06-15-2007, 08:49 AM

Since I can't STAND posts that ask you to re-direct to someone else's website...I'll put my thoughts HERE, where they've created an ACTUAL BOARD that wants my information.

/end rant

If you're here then you were either frustrated or amused by the ending.

Welcome to the club.

I think I spent 2 minutes afterwards, staring at the silent credits and going "WTF?" before anger set in and I punched my Paulie Walnuts sofa cushion into submission.

I avoided the web (critics BLASTING Chase for selling out and leaving it open for a movie), the talkshows ("Sellout or Genius?" was my favorite subscript scrolling across the screen), the radio and print til now.

Cuz I re-watched it. And the Penultimate one, too.

I'm a moron...no, really, stop laughing. I admit it. Chase was subtle only in how he used the camera - the ending is created to give the viewer 2 outs: Tony is whacked or Tony lives in paranoia.

It's one of those "You Choose the Adventure" books from back in the early 80's.

My death-riddled theory is, of course, he is killed by the dodgy trucker who kept fidgeting around and went to the bathroom right before Meadow shows up. Someone, somewhere, started the rumor that this character was Nicky Leotardo, Phil's nephew, but that's just not the case. "Man in Diner" is in the credits and the only Leotardo shown was Frank Vincent. But Tony's death would explain Chase's use of the Bobby Flashback in the second-to-last episode: at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black.

Well, that's what happened, right? Tony died...and the last several frustrating seconds were his Point of View on what happened.

The other, nicer, side of me sees the shut off by the camera as a tool for the Story-teller to leave us feeling as lost, paranoid and confused as Tony is. He's got another rat in the house, one protected by the Feds and there are indictments coming down (loved the ketchup bottle and distracted lawyer scene). Tony will finally do "hard" time, possibly, or burn every last hidden dollar to keep himself out. He also has a "letter of recommendation" from his favorite Fed for the help with the terrorists...so maybe it's a short visit for him.

Under either scenario, the entire episode showed different conclusions -- Leotardo's gone, NY & NJ have reached an accord, Tony has an in with the Feds, Junior is completely gone, Meadow has a future outside the family and AJ's still, well, AJ.

Any further frustration by the fans is from not being spoon-fed an ending. That and having to find something else to do Sunday nights.

Markus.Darkus · 06-16-2007, 04:24 AM

I must admit....like yourself I sat when the screen went blank and just thought WTF!

Reading your thoughts though Garts has enlightened me a bit, but still doesn't heal the wound. I think you may be right about the Bobby flash from the pen-ultimate episode leading to the black fade finish and the guy from the toilets whacking him. It was obvious that he was facing a really tough Rico trial after one of his own flipped on him, but I was also disapointed with the Deaths of all the Loyal Capo's and not the Bastard Tony, who Gandolfini has portrayed so amazingly, I've recently really started to love to hate his character more than usual, but some sort of Justice against him would have been appreciated just to show some of the Idiots who watch the show and Idolise Mr Soprano that crime does not pay....this finale seemed to paint a different picture.

The finale aside.....The Soprnanos has been one of the most consistently great shows I've ever seen and it will be missed.......especially Paulie Walnuts.....killed me when he wouldn't take over the Sifferetto crew because of all the early deaths to the capo's.

lost_grrl · 06-16-2007, 10:31 AM

I think that you missed one possible option...the paranoia was ours and Tony and his families are just conducting business as usual. I think that the epi, and especially the end, was meant to show just how mundane all that sort of stuff is in the type of life he leads. It is expected that every few years there will be power plays, it is routine to be buggered by the feds and crew members tend to die. Yet Tony goes on, going out to dinner with his family like all hell wasn't breaking loose 48 hours ago. That's just how it is in this thing of ours.

Markus.Darkus · 06-16-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_grrl

I think that you missed one possible option...the paranoia was ours and Tony and his families are just conducting business as usual. I think that the epi, and especially the end, was meant to show just how mundane all that sort of stuff is in the type of life he leads. It is expected that every few years there will be power plays, it is routine to be buggered by the feds and crew members tend to die. Yet Tony goes on, going out to dinner with his family like all hell wasn't breaking loose 48 hours ago. That's just how it is in this thing of ours.

Oh definately a possibility, it's what I first thought, but reading Garts post and remembering the Bobby flashback just makes you wonder. Of course he was pretty screwed anyway with the impending Rico trial, I mean....they've been building a case since season 1 and we've all seen what he's been up to, so he's looking at some serious jail time. I personally thought it deserved a more definate ending, but hats off to them for making the show they wanted to make.....and what a show it's been.

lost_grrl · 06-16-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus.Darkus

Oh definately a possibility, it's what I first thought, but reading Garts post and remembering the Bobby flashback just makes you wonder. Of course he was pretty screwed anyway with the impending Rico trial, I mean....they've been building a case since season 1 and we've all seen what he's been up to, so he's looking at some serious jail time. I personally thought it deserved a more definate ending, but hats off to them for making the show they wanted to make.....and what a show it's been.

They certainly have been pushing the fact that the Feds were building a case against Tony. I was pretty sure at one point that they were going to do an Al Capone type thing on Tony where what finally brings him down wasn't any murder or other mob-type thing but some sort of huge EPA violation for dumping the asbestos. Guess not!

Markus.Darkus · 06-16-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost_grrl

They certainly have been pushing the fact that the Feds were building a case against Tony. I was pretty sure at one point that they were going to do an Al Capone type thing on Tony where what finally brings him down wasn't any murder or other mob-type thing but some sort of huge EPA violation for dumping the asbestos. Guess not!

A couple of weeks ago my money was on Tony flipping and bringing down Phil Leotardo, it could have gone down so many way's.

Gartism · 06-17-2007, 12:27 PM

Good point Lost_Grrl on the third alternate...either way, Chase made an amazing series and used a finish that NO ONE expected. Give him a lot of credit for that.

Seems to press is starting to agree with the "whacked" scenario now...so I'll just sit here and smile a bit

Also -- wasn't that same dinner scene used somewhere earlier in the series? I got this weird deja vu feeling once Tony started throwing menus around on the table. Season 1 or 2, maybe? I just feel like we've seen that diner before.

Markus.Darkus · 06-17-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gartism

Good point Lost_Grrl on the third alternate...either way, Chase made an amazing series and used a finish that NO ONE expected. Give him a lot of credit for that.

Seems to press is starting to agree with the "whacked" scenario now...so I'll just sit here and smile a bit

Also -- wasn't that same dinner scene used somewhere earlier in the series? I got this weird deja vu feeling once Tony started throwing menus around on the table. Season 1 or 2, maybe? I just feel like we've seen that diner before.

The amount of Diners and food joints those guy's went in over the years......I can't remember half of them!

Gartism · 06-19-2007, 09:58 AM

True - food was definitely an over-imposing theme ("What - No f***ing ziti now?") ... but I'll be damned if I'll watch all the seasons over again just to look for that diner.

Anyone else get a deja vu sense during that scene or was that something else Chase was going for?

lost_grrl · 06-19-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gartism

True - food was definitely an over-imposing theme ("What - No f***ing ziti now?") ... but I'll be damned if I'll watch all the seasons over again just to look for that diner.

Anyone else get a deja vu sense during that scene or was that something else Chase was going for?

You may be thinking about the first season finale. During a bad storm the family takes refuge at Vesuvio's (it turns out that The Family has done so as well). But the four of them (The Sopranos) are sitting around a table and Tony mentions something about remembering the happy times. The same line was used by AJ while they were waiting for Meadow. Tony didn't remember and AJ reminded him.

Maybe that is what you are remembering?

I still don't buy the wacked theory. I like my own (surprise, surprise)

By the way, did anyone else think that their cable/dish went out when the screen went black?

06-15-2007, 08:49 AM	#1
Gartism Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,590	Finale -- An Actual Post, not a link Since I can't STAND posts that ask you to re-direct to someone else's website...I'll put my thoughts HERE, where they've created an ACTUAL BOARD that wants my information. /end rant If you're here then you were either frustrated or amused by the ending. Welcome to the club. I think I spent 2 minutes afterwards, staring at the silent credits and going "WTF?" before anger set in and I punched my Paulie Walnuts sofa cushion into submission. I avoided the web (critics BLASTING Chase for selling out and leaving it open for a movie), the talkshows ("Sellout or Genius?" was my favorite subscript scrolling across the screen), the radio and print til now. Cuz I re-watched it. And the Penultimate one, too. I'm a moron...no, really, stop laughing. I admit it. Chase was subtle only in how he used the camera - the ending is created to give the viewer 2 outs: Tony is whacked or Tony lives in paranoia. It's one of those "You Choose the Adventure" books from back in the early 80's. My death-riddled theory is, of course, he is killed by the dodgy trucker who kept fidgeting around and went to the bathroom right before Meadow shows up. Someone, somewhere, started the rumor that this character was Nicky Leotardo, Phil's nephew, but that's just not the case. "Man in Diner" is in the credits and the only Leotardo shown was Frank Vincent. But Tony's death would explain Chase's use of the Bobby Flashback in the second-to-last episode: at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black. Well, that's what happened, right? Tony died...and the last several frustrating seconds were his Point of View on what happened. The other, nicer, side of me sees the shut off by the camera as a tool for the Story-teller to leave us feeling as lost, paranoid and confused as Tony is. He's got another rat in the house, one protected by the Feds and there are indictments coming down (loved the ketchup bottle and distracted lawyer scene). Tony will finally do "hard" time, possibly, or burn every last hidden dollar to keep himself out. He also has a "letter of recommendation" from his favorite Fed for the help with the terrorists...so maybe it's a short visit for him. Under either scenario, the entire episode showed different conclusions -- Leotardo's gone, NY & NJ have reached an accord, Tony has an in with the Feds, Junior is completely gone, Meadow has a future outside the family and AJ's still, well, AJ. Any further frustration by the fans is from not being spoon-fed an ending. That and having to find something else to do Sunday nights. __________________ -G Red...Neck...Man I dare you: http://www.myspace.com/ryangartley

06-16-2007, 04:24 AM	#2
Markus.Darkus Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: England Posts: 1,821	I must admit....like yourself I sat when the screen went blank and just thought WTF! Reading your thoughts though Garts has enlightened me a bit, but still doesn't heal the wound. I think you may be right about the Bobby flash from the pen-ultimate episode leading to the black fade finish and the guy from the toilets whacking him. It was obvious that he was facing a really tough Rico trial after one of his own flipped on him, but I was also disapointed with the Deaths of all the Loyal Capo's and not the Bastard Tony, who Gandolfini has portrayed so amazingly, I've recently really started to love to hate his character more than usual, but some sort of Justice against him would have been appreciated just to show some of the Idiots who watch the show and Idolise Mr Soprano that crime does not pay....this finale seemed to paint a different picture. The finale aside.....The Soprnanos has been one of the most consistently great shows I've ever seen and it will be missed.......especially Paulie Walnuts.....killed me when he wouldn't take over the Sifferetto crew because of all the early deaths to the capo's. __________________ The biggest mystery of Lost is how the Hobbitt scored with Miss Lilly. Free Grooverider! Thanks to Clueless for the banner......it Pwns.

06-17-2007, 12:27 PM	#7
Gartism Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,590	Good point Lost_Grrl on the third alternate...either way, Chase made an amazing series and used a finish that NO ONE expected. Give him a lot of credit for that. Seems to press is starting to agree with the "whacked" scenario now...so I'll just sit here and smile a bit Also -- wasn't that same dinner scene used somewhere earlier in the series? I got this weird deja vu feeling once Tony started throwing menus around on the table. Season 1 or 2, maybe? I just feel like we've seen that diner before. __________________ -G Red...Neck...Man I dare you: http://www.myspace.com/ryangartley

06-19-2007, 09:58 AM	#9
Gartism Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,590	True - food was definitely an over-imposing theme ("What - No f***ing ziti now?") ... but I'll be damned if I'll watch all the seasons over again just to look for that diner. Anyone else get a deja vu sense during that scene or was that something else Chase was going for? __________________ -G Red...Neck...Man I dare you: http://www.myspace.com/ryangartley

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06-16-2007, 10:31 AM	#3
lost_grrl Lost Administrator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Earth...I think Posts: 774	I think that you missed one possible option...the paranoia was ours and Tony and his families are just conducting business as usual. I think that the epi, and especially the end, was meant to show just how mundane all that sort of stuff is in the type of life he leads. It is expected that every few years there will be power plays, it is routine to be buggered by the feds and crew members tend to die. Yet Tony goes on, going out to dinner with his family like all hell wasn't breaking loose 48 hours ago. That's just how it is in this thing of ours.