Kristin Kreuk - Page 182

cecil44 · 01-05-2008, 11:50 PM

Mxlpdilk I agree on some aspects of your post (the last two)-- I have yet to answer to the ones above. They have shown Clark to ignore Jor-el's warnings more than once. But the reason I think that Clark is redeemable is because at the core of his characterization he still has a "hero complex". The thing is as much as he's been a big dumb alien, he still manages to make a save each and every episode. He still manages to save those he cares about, and sometimes even those he does not care about (for example Lex in Cure, Nemesis, Lockdown and so on). This shows that deep down Clark Kent is still a hero-- BUT the faults and the other things empasized also show that Clark Kent is NOT Superman. And it's ok for me, because this is his learning process, and the only way he will become superman is when he accepts his heritage,

cecil44 · 01-05-2008, 11:51 PM

who he is and realizes that he does not want to be just another normal guy. Clark for me is still in his learning process, so i am kinda ok with him making mistakes. HOWEVER, I do agree that they have gone over the top with making him look like a dumbass alien. I also agree that they have stalled him from going into training for too long-- although I don't think he needs to train with this version of Jor-el (see above). BUT I completely understand this because Smallville is Clark Kent's story--In Smallville. If he goes to train then the show ends-- if he moves to metropolis and becomes Clark Kent with dorky glasses--again the show ends. So I understand the stalling even though I don't like it.

cecil44 · 01-05-2008, 11:55 PM

For me, it's easy to believe that Clark can be a hero-because I've seen him save lives over and over in this show-it's also easy to believe that he can be responsible-because again we've seen him take responsibility for his actions (phantoms that escaped in the phantom zone for example). Now as for Lana---- Why do they need to redeem her??? I mean why does she have to be sweet Lana from season 1 episode 1? I honestly don't understand the reason that Lana has to be this absolutely sweet and nice girl-- Lana who is dark and troubled and even close to being evil makes more sense. And she is even more enjoyable and interesting to watch. I would rather watch Lana who is living a double life than watch Lana who is making pancakes and arranging flowers as if nothing has happened in the past six seasons. That would be taking her character development backwards-- which is basically what they are doing anyways. It's ok for Clark to be obsessed with Lana, as long as they make it clear that he's o

cecil44 · 01-06-2008, 12:01 AM

as long as they make it clear that he's obsessed with "the Ideal Image of Lana" that he has in his head. I can see him being blind to all her faults if he was in fact in love with a "fictional, ideal Lana" a woman that he cooked up in his imaginations blinding him from seeing the real Lana. By showing Clark opening his eyes and seeing the REAL Lana, and then realizing that the image of the girl of his dreams, the girl next-door, the sweet innocent Lana has all been one of the big blinders, then they show a Clark who is slowly waking up to see the world as it really is, to see himself as he really is, to accept the REAL Clark. Lana does not need to be redeemed, and if they do decide to redeem her, then Lana needs to suffer for all she has done!

cecil44 · 01-06-2008, 12:02 AM

The problem with this show and why they make me hate Lana--even dark and very interesting Evil!Lana is because they sweep everything she does under the guise of everything and everyone else made Lana do it! And I hate it! She and Lois are now almost in the same category (although Lois is still likeable) in that they never pay for their very stupid decisions. To me, that is terrible story-telling! Now if Lana suffered for all the stupid decisions she has made in her life, then she works hard to redeem herself, to prove herself, to prove that she is worth being loved by Clark, by Chloe and even by Lex, then Lana might get redeemed. BUT having Lana say "I need to live with the consequences of my decisions" and not showing ANY CONSEQUENCES does not mean she is now blameless and redeemable. If anything, by using that line, Lana was just playing onto Clark's feelings, making him feel guilty.

cecil44 · 01-06-2008, 12:05 AM

Lana only pulls such lines like "I'm not worth your love Clark" or "I don't think am good or strong" or whatever it is she said to Clark only when she has messed up big time and does not want to loose Clark's worship. Obviously she knows how Clark feels about her and takes advantage of that (remember when she told Chloe something like "I can't help how Clark feels about me" to justify her betraying Chloe's friendship and backstabbing her supposed best friend?). For me Lana would have to suffer hard and long to be completely redeemed. She would need to do some hard and long thinking work really, really hard to gain Chloe's and Clark's trust back. The fact that Clark tried to kill Lionel and Lex for Lana also just proves how wrong Lana is for her. He's so blinded that he does not wait to think first, he just acts. I think that Lana's problems go beyond Clark, Lana's problems are deeply rooted-- she's needy and always ready to move to the next male victim that sings about her awesomeness

cecil44 · 01-06-2008, 12:06 AM

and how much they love and want to save and care for her-- how many men have we seen tell her that "they did it to protect her"=== as if she can't protect herself? The fact that she gets zero consequences for her decisions means that she learns nothing from her mistakes. Whereas with Clark he ALWAYS gets punished one way or the other (not just by Jor-el), or gets told off (by either Chloe, Martha, Lois, Pete and Jonathan (in earlier seasons), and even Lana) which means that he actually learns something from his decisions/from his mistakes. Lana on the other hand learns nothing since she's never the one to blame. It's either: lex made her do it, Clark made her do it, her parents abandoned her and made her do it, Lionel made her do it, the magnetic boy made her do it, Isabell witch made her do it, Jason made her do it, Whitney made her do it-- and so on and so on... even to the point where you are almost 100 percent sure that when Clark comes back and finds out that Lana has been mackin

cecil44 · 01-06-2008, 12:08 AM

and making out with Bizarro when he was out of the picture-- Clark will be the one to blame. Not Lana-- Why would Lana be the one to blame for anything? She's the fairly princess, the blamess victim in everything she does no matter who gets hurt in the process, she's the goddess of smallville and one look from her makes every man (and woman) fall instantly in love with her and even every villain falls to kiss her feet (Lex, Zod and now Bizarro)! Lex married her, Bizarro will probably want to steal Clark's life to be with Lana and Zod wanted to have little zodlings and Lanalings with her: Zod: "Lana I want to have babies with you because ou are the awesome!" aargggg-- hwo are we expected to take Lana's character seriously when the writers just drop her anywhere the place needs to go without sticking to any character growth that makes the slightest little bit of sense? Oh yeah-- I forget because she's Lana and we are all supposed to love her and worship her no matter what! Oh show!

alacia88 · 01-06-2008, 01:03 AM

Good points made by all.... and not to throw a wrench in either the Lana or future Lois relationship with Clark, but what about all those episodes they spent on telling Clark over and over (even in the first season with the woman in the retirement home who could see the future) that he is destined to live forever and that the people he loves will all die and he'll be left alone?? They wouldn't keep putting that in there for nothing. I'm not so sure he's going to end up with Lois or Lana -- he may just end up having more affection for Lois or something. I'm realizing more and more that Gough & Millar seem to have had most of this planned out from the beginning. Everything seems to be tying together (not to give away spoilers to anyone not wishing to know) and old things they have briefly mentioned or people who only seemed to have a one year (aka. tv season) affect on Clark's life end up having back story as well and more of a purpose in the overall series plot than we think. (Has any

alacia88 · 01-06-2008, 01:07 AM

(Has anyone ever noticed that the front page headline of the newspaper that Lionel is reading in the Pilot episode is about Oliver Queen's parents?! That can't be coincidence....) I think I'm just trying to say that I think Gough & Millar have had most of this planned out from the beginning, and so don't give up on them yet because they may have more up their sleeves than we realize. They just seem to have decided to take the mythology of good ol' Supe in other directions.

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01-05-2008, 11:50 PM	#1811
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	Mxlpdilk I agree on some aspects of your post (the last two)-- I have yet to answer to the ones above. They have shown Clark to ignore Jor-el's warnings more than once. But the reason I think that Clark is redeemable is because at the core of his characterization he still has a "hero complex". The thing is as much as he's been a big dumb alien, he still manages to make a save each and every episode. He still manages to save those he cares about, and sometimes even those he does not care about (for example Lex in Cure, Nemesis, Lockdown and so on). This shows that deep down Clark Kent is still a hero-- BUT the faults and the other things empasized also show that Clark Kent is NOT Superman. And it's ok for me, because this is his learning process, and the only way he will become superman is when he accepts his heritage,

01-05-2008, 11:51 PM	#1812
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	who he is and realizes that he does not want to be just another normal guy. Clark for me is still in his learning process, so i am kinda ok with him making mistakes. HOWEVER, I do agree that they have gone over the top with making him look like a dumbass alien. I also agree that they have stalled him from going into training for too long-- although I don't think he needs to train with this version of Jor-el (see above). BUT I completely understand this because Smallville is Clark Kent's story--In Smallville. If he goes to train then the show ends-- if he moves to metropolis and becomes Clark Kent with dorky glasses--again the show ends. So I understand the stalling even though I don't like it.

01-05-2008, 11:55 PM	#1813
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	For me, it's easy to believe that Clark can be a hero-because I've seen him save lives over and over in this show-it's also easy to believe that he can be responsible-because again we've seen him take responsibility for his actions (phantoms that escaped in the phantom zone for example). Now as for Lana---- Why do they need to redeem her??? I mean why does she have to be sweet Lana from season 1 episode 1? I honestly don't understand the reason that Lana has to be this absolutely sweet and nice girl-- Lana who is dark and troubled and even close to being evil makes more sense. And she is even more enjoyable and interesting to watch. I would rather watch Lana who is living a double life than watch Lana who is making pancakes and arranging flowers as if nothing has happened in the past six seasons. That would be taking her character development backwards-- which is basically what they are doing anyways. It's ok for Clark to be obsessed with Lana, as long as they make it clear that he's o

01-06-2008, 12:01 AM	#1814
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	as long as they make it clear that he's obsessed with "the Ideal Image of Lana" that he has in his head. I can see him being blind to all her faults if he was in fact in love with a "fictional, ideal Lana" a woman that he cooked up in his imaginations blinding him from seeing the real Lana. By showing Clark opening his eyes and seeing the REAL Lana, and then realizing that the image of the girl of his dreams, the girl next-door, the sweet innocent Lana has all been one of the big blinders, then they show a Clark who is slowly waking up to see the world as it really is, to see himself as he really is, to accept the REAL Clark. Lana does not need to be redeemed, and if they do decide to redeem her, then Lana needs to suffer for all she has done!

01-06-2008, 12:02 AM	#1815
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	The problem with this show and why they make me hate Lana--even dark and very interesting Evil!Lana is because they sweep everything she does under the guise of everything and everyone else made Lana do it! And I hate it! She and Lois are now almost in the same category (although Lois is still likeable) in that they never pay for their very stupid decisions. To me, that is terrible story-telling! Now if Lana suffered for all the stupid decisions she has made in her life, then she works hard to redeem herself, to prove herself, to prove that she is worth being loved by Clark, by Chloe and even by Lex, then Lana might get redeemed. BUT having Lana say "I need to live with the consequences of my decisions" and not showing ANY CONSEQUENCES does not mean she is now blameless and redeemable. If anything, by using that line, Lana was just playing onto Clark's feelings, making him feel guilty.

01-06-2008, 12:05 AM	#1816
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	Lana only pulls such lines like "I'm not worth your love Clark" or "I don't think am good or strong" or whatever it is she said to Clark only when she has messed up big time and does not want to loose Clark's worship. Obviously she knows how Clark feels about her and takes advantage of that (remember when she told Chloe something like "I can't help how Clark feels about me" to justify her betraying Chloe's friendship and backstabbing her supposed best friend?). For me Lana would have to suffer hard and long to be completely redeemed. She would need to do some hard and long thinking work really, really hard to gain Chloe's and Clark's trust back. The fact that Clark tried to kill Lionel and Lex for Lana also just proves how wrong Lana is for her. He's so blinded that he does not wait to think first, he just acts. I think that Lana's problems go beyond Clark, Lana's problems are deeply rooted-- she's needy and always ready to move to the next male victim that sings about her awesomeness

01-06-2008, 12:06 AM	#1817
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	and how much they love and want to save and care for her-- how many men have we seen tell her that "they did it to protect her"=== as if she can't protect herself? The fact that she gets zero consequences for her decisions means that she learns nothing from her mistakes. Whereas with Clark he ALWAYS gets punished one way or the other (not just by Jor-el), or gets told off (by either Chloe, Martha, Lois, Pete and Jonathan (in earlier seasons), and even Lana) which means that he actually learns something from his decisions/from his mistakes. Lana on the other hand learns nothing since she's never the one to blame. It's either: lex made her do it, Clark made her do it, her parents abandoned her and made her do it, Lionel made her do it, the magnetic boy made her do it, Isabell witch made her do it, Jason made her do it, Whitney made her do it-- and so on and so on... even to the point where you are almost 100 percent sure that when Clark comes back and finds out that Lana has been mackin

01-06-2008, 12:08 AM	#1818
cecil44 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 788	and making out with Bizarro when he was out of the picture-- Clark will be the one to blame. Not Lana-- Why would Lana be the one to blame for anything? She's the fairly princess, the blamess victim in everything she does no matter who gets hurt in the process, she's the goddess of smallville and one look from her makes every man (and woman) fall instantly in love with her and even every villain falls to kiss her feet (Lex, Zod and now Bizarro)! Lex married her, Bizarro will probably want to steal Clark's life to be with Lana and Zod wanted to have little zodlings and Lanalings with her: Zod: "Lana I want to have babies with you because ou are the awesome!" aargggg-- hwo are we expected to take Lana's character seriously when the writers just drop her anywhere the place needs to go without sticking to any character growth that makes the slightest little bit of sense? Oh yeah-- I forget because she's Lana and we are all supposed to love her and worship her no matter what! Oh show!

01-06-2008, 01:03 AM	#1819
alacia88 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 153	Good points made by all.... and not to throw a wrench in either the Lana or future Lois relationship with Clark, but what about all those episodes they spent on telling Clark over and over (even in the first season with the woman in the retirement home who could see the future) that he is destined to live forever and that the people he loves will all die and he'll be left alone?? They wouldn't keep putting that in there for nothing. I'm not so sure he's going to end up with Lois or Lana -- he may just end up having more affection for Lois or something. I'm realizing more and more that Gough & Millar seem to have had most of this planned out from the beginning. Everything seems to be tying together (not to give away spoilers to anyone not wishing to know) and old things they have briefly mentioned or people who only seemed to have a one year (aka. tv season) affect on Clark's life end up having back story as well and more of a purpose in the overall series plot than we think. (Has any

01-06-2008, 01:07 AM	#1820
alacia88 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 153	(Has anyone ever noticed that the front page headline of the newspaper that Lionel is reading in the Pilot episode is about Oliver Queen's parents?! That can't be coincidence....) I think I'm just trying to say that I think Gough & Millar have had most of this planned out from the beginning, and so don't give up on them yet because they may have more up their sleeves than we realize. They just seem to have decided to take the mythology of good ol' Supe in other directions.