You're a good liar

joeyjoejoe · 03-15-2008, 09:21 PM

I'm going back and watching Season 3 episodes online again, and the second time through the plot seems much more cohesive than I even thought it was the first time. I think the Season 3 DVDs will bring some viewers back into the fold cause they will be cheaper than Seasons 1 and 2, and the episodes complement each other much better when you watch them back to back.

What strikes me in the second viewing is how Whistler goes out of his way to lie when he doesn't have to, and how bad Whistler actually is at lying. It seems most of the characters picked up on it earlier than I did. I noticed this from the first time Sofia visits him in episode 3. If he is an actual spy with the company, I don't think he'd be very good at it. I think that if he is intel ops he doesn't do much aside from surveillance, unless he has a very specific area of expertise (and Sona life obviously doesn't fit in.)

Anyone else notice that Mahone almost never lies? The only time he does is when he is cornered, like when he has to explain to the news why he killed Tweener or when Sullins was grilling him in Season 2.

candyrose · 03-15-2008, 09:39 PM

Hey Joeyjoejoe...long time, no speak

Anyway, I think you have raised some interesting points. I think many on here have been suspicious of Whistler from the beginning....yet there was always some sort of debate or questioning involved. As far as him being a bad liar and the others catching onto it early on, I don't know if their skepticism can be solely attributed to his lack of ability to lie well--or at least how we perceive his lying abilities. See, he was obviously linked to the company--whether it was voluntary or not--and this alone was cause for suspicion merely due to association. The company is capable of many things, they have learned, and the fact he was always as vague as he could get away with only perpetuates any doubt had. So, even if we could say he was a good liar, I still think they--or at least Mikey--would have been just as cautious and skeptical.

joeyjoejoe · 03-15-2008, 10:19 PM

Yeah I know, I don't post a whole lot on here anymore.

I pretty much agree with you, except on the last point. You could make the case that Michael might not have broken out if it weren't for that coordinates display near the end of the season. Despite what Michael said, it wasn't all about LJ. He was sure that this escape could have worse consequences than the Fox River escape. I think Whistler was able to sell himself just enough to quell Michael's concerns for the escape to proceed, but I also agree that Michael was always onto him.

candyrose · 03-15-2008, 10:45 PM

But if this were the case, wouldn't it make Whistler a good liar if he was convincing?

Anyway, I think he could have continued with the escape with the doubt and skepticism because of LJ. You are right; he did care...I also think he thought it was the only way to know for sure if Whistler was being honest and if he worked for the company. And then there is the fact he wanted to get to the person responsible for Sara's death....so even if there was doubt about Whistler...and even if he questioned whether or not he should help him escape...I think it would have ended the same: he would have gotten him out...he had to save LJ, find out more about Whistler, and get to Susan....

So, when are you going to email me again??

joeyjoejoe · 03-16-2008, 09:48 AM

All I meant to say is that Michael's skepticism about Whistler is also a function of Whistler's behavior; I don't think they are independent.

Did you ever reply to my last one?

candyrose · 03-16-2008, 10:03 AM

Hey there!
Yes, I got that part...I was just adding a little to it....and raising some questions, of course.

Umm..which one was that...I don't recall...just know I have missed you...wow, that sounds a little mushy...sorry...

joeyjoejoe · 03-16-2008, 10:53 AM

I'll send you a PM in a sec here.

I'm watching 300, I think the writers only used like 300 words total. Kneel, crawl, fight, die, shade, persians, spartans, etc.....

I think I need to read a literary masterpiece to break even for the day.

gunners · 03-16-2008, 01:09 PM

Didn't Alex lie about killing that guy who thought he knew who Whistler really was or do you mean when hes in control of himself he doesn't lie...

smileyone · 03-16-2008, 01:31 PM

Am I the only person on here that thinks that Whistler..... might not have been such a good liar.... cause ... he really isn't a liar type of guy....

ok... take the torture scene, for example.... you could argue one of two things... regarding his particular scene.... he was out of that chair quicker then when he got in.... as opposed to Greatchen, who was in there for a lot longer!!! A cynical person could say... that he got out quickly to get Grechen more involved.... but a Whistler believer.... might see it that he is afraid of torture.... because he is very unfamiliar with it all!!!
What do you all think???

Every single one of them in that show.... lied in one sense or another since the beginning of the season....

candyrose · 03-16-2008, 09:29 PM

You thought the same thing, eh? Well, it wasn't intended, so I have now learned, to follow the typical arch. But, yes.....there was no real story...no character development...pretty much no interaction and so on....
I just saw Doomsday....it is nothing like the previews. Have you seen it??

03-15-2008, 09:21 PM	#1
joeyjoejoe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 396	You're a good liar I'm going back and watching Season 3 episodes online again, and the second time through the plot seems much more cohesive than I even thought it was the first time. I think the Season 3 DVDs will bring some viewers back into the fold cause they will be cheaper than Seasons 1 and 2, and the episodes complement each other much better when you watch them back to back. What strikes me in the second viewing is how Whistler goes out of his way to lie when he doesn't have to, and how bad Whistler actually is at lying. It seems most of the characters picked up on it earlier than I did. I noticed this from the first time Sofia visits him in episode 3. If he is an actual spy with the company, I don't think he'd be very good at it. I think that if he is intel ops he doesn't do much aside from surveillance, unless he has a very specific area of expertise (and Sona life obviously doesn't fit in.) Anyone else notice that Mahone almost never lies? The only time he does is when he is cornered, like when he has to explain to the news why he killed Tweener or when Sullins was grilling him in Season 2. Last edited by joeyjoejoe : 03-15-2008 at 09:35 PM.

03-15-2008, 10:19 PM	#3
joeyjoejoe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 396	Yeah I know, I don't post a whole lot on here anymore. I pretty much agree with you, except on the last point. You could make the case that Michael might not have broken out if it weren't for that coordinates display near the end of the season. Despite what Michael said, it wasn't all about LJ. He was sure that this escape could have worse consequences than the Fox River escape. I think Whistler was able to sell himself just enough to quell Michael's concerns for the escape to proceed, but I also agree that Michael was always onto him. Last edited by joeyjoejoe : 03-15-2008 at 10:26 PM.

03-16-2008, 01:31 PM	#9
smileyone Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 11,425	Am I the only person on here that thinks that Whistler..... might not have been such a good liar.... cause ... he really isn't a liar type of guy.... ok... take the torture scene, for example.... you could argue one of two things... regarding his particular scene.... he was out of that chair quicker then when he got in.... as opposed to Greatchen, who was in there for a lot longer!!! A cynical person could say... that he got out quickly to get Grechen more involved.... but a Whistler believer.... might see it that he is afraid of torture.... because he is very unfamiliar with it all!!! What do you all think??? Every single one of them in that show.... lied in one sense or another since the beginning of the season.... __________________ MAY 14th-16th 2010, BIRMINGHAM, UK ASYLUM 4, HOUSES OF THE HOLY AND OCTOBER 30th - NOVEMBER 1st 2009, YORK, UK GHOSTFACERS - HELL HOUNDS CON RIP. MR. KIM MANNERS MANY THANKS FOR ALL x

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03-15-2008, 09:39 PM	#2
candyrose Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,706	Hey Joeyjoejoe...long time, no speak Anyway, I think you have raised some interesting points. I think many on here have been suspicious of Whistler from the beginning....yet there was always some sort of debate or questioning involved. As far as him being a bad liar and the others catching onto it early on, I don't know if their skepticism can be solely attributed to his lack of ability to lie well--or at least how we perceive his lying abilities. See, he was obviously linked to the company--whether it was voluntary or not--and this alone was cause for suspicion merely due to association. The company is capable of many things, they have learned, and the fact he was always as vague as he could get away with only perpetuates any doubt had. So, even if we could say he was a good liar, I still think they--or at least Mikey--would have been just as cautious and skeptical.

03-15-2008, 10:45 PM	#4
candyrose Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,706	But if this were the case, wouldn't it make Whistler a good liar if he was convincing? Anyway, I think he could have continued with the escape with the doubt and skepticism because of LJ. You are right; he did care...I also think he thought it was the only way to know for sure if Whistler was being honest and if he worked for the company. And then there is the fact he wanted to get to the person responsible for Sara's death....so even if there was doubt about Whistler...and even if he questioned whether or not he should help him escape...I think it would have ended the same: he would have gotten him out...he had to save LJ, find out more about Whistler, and get to Susan.... So, when are you going to email me again??

03-16-2008, 09:48 AM	#5
joeyjoejoe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 396	All I meant to say is that Michael's skepticism about Whistler is also a function of Whistler's behavior; I don't think they are independent. Did you ever reply to my last one?

03-16-2008, 10:03 AM	#6
candyrose Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,706	Hey there! Yes, I got that part...I was just adding a little to it....and raising some questions, of course. Umm..which one was that...I don't recall...just know I have missed you...wow, that sounds a little mushy...sorry...

03-16-2008, 10:53 AM	#7
joeyjoejoe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 396	I'll send you a PM in a sec here. I'm watching 300, I think the writers only used like 300 words total. Kneel, crawl, fight, die, shade, persians, spartans, etc..... I think I need to read a literary masterpiece to break even for the day.

03-16-2008, 01:09 PM	#8
gunners Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ENGLAND baby Posts: 1,550	Didn't Alex lie about killing that guy who thought he knew who Whistler really was or do you mean when hes in control of himself he doesn't lie...

03-16-2008, 09:29 PM	#10
candyrose Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,706	You thought the same thing, eh? Well, it wasn't intended, so I have now learned, to follow the typical arch. But, yes.....there was no real story...no character development...pretty much no interaction and so on.... I just saw Doomsday....it is nothing like the previews. Have you seen it??