Whitmore

woo33 · 04-29-2008, 09:39 AM

Just an idea but from the last few minutes of last week's episode, I think that Whitmore is the only known suvivor of the black rock, it is his island because he "discovered" it. Linus cannot kill him b/c the island will not let him die, he has been trying to get back ever since. In Desmond's flash forward/back, Whitmore was seen buying what was actually his journal.

erikau · 05-02-2008, 10:52 AM

I agree. Widmore is Jacob, Mr. Black Rock guy, being trapped somehow by Ben Linus.

mugatu22 · 05-04-2008, 01:11 AM

Wouldn't someone in the "real world" outside of the island notice that Widmore hasn't aged...ever...if this was the case? Like Penny? Just curious.

I'm not sold on the Whidmore = Jacob = original Black Rock passenger. Seems like WAAAY too much of a stretch.

erikau · 05-04-2008, 04:22 PM

Why wouldn't the Widmore in the "real world" age? I assume that is how Ben ages...because he often travels to the real world and his body ages normally there. Perhaps the Island is a sort of Fountain of Youth, which would explain why Widmore wants it back so badly.

Think of the time line: Ben was a youngish kid when he seemingly became involved with the natives...the Purge was done about 10 years after this, and to me it appeared to be the work of Ben...that would mean somewhere between 1970-1980 real world time, Ben may have overthrown Jacob/Widmore as "the guy." To me, this puts it at the right time considering Penny's age (which I believe to be early 30s, but who knows...Sun is only supposed to be like 24 and looks older to me) for Widmore's physical self to have been sent into the future (it would have been the future for him if he is a Black Rock survivor), virtually trapped there, and thus he begins his quest to get back to the Island, but maybe starts a family along the way, which he couldn't do on the Island because of the whole pregnancy = death dealie.

It just seems clear to me that Ben and Widmore are involved in a sort of competition or game with one another. They have obviously known each other, I think the scenes in which they interact indicate that clearly. If Ben has been on the Island for his adult life, that leaves two possibilities:

1) Ben met Widmore while Ben was making one of his trips to the "real world." Perhaps Ben did or said something that let Widmore know he was unusual, or with some sort of power. I guess this is possible, but seems pretty lame considering the show so far has shown Ben as nothing but very, very capable. I doubt the protector of the Island, which he is even if it is for selfish reasons, would casually allow an outsider to find out.

2) Widmore met Ben on the Island. To me, this is backed up by Widmore saying, "The Island is mine, you took it from me but it is mine." Seriously. How more clear cut can we get when it comes to Lost haha. Widmore isn't looking for the Island fot the first time, it USED TO BE his. Ben took it, somehow. To me, the whole exchange between Ben and Widmore in Widmore's bedroom suggested they were very familiar with each other, if only because they are old adversaries. Ben says Widmore "changed the rules"...this means they HAD rules. All of this suggests they have a past together.

More? Jacob supposedly hates technology, as evidences by his old fashioned cabin and the fact that Ben says so. Well, Ben lies. In the initial exchange between Ben and Locke and the invisible Jacob in the cabin, when Locke turns the flashlight on, Jacob is suddenly able to manifest into blurry, but definitely there, form. He is also able to hurl Ben across the room. He doesn't attack Locke, who is holding the supposedly offensive object, but Ben. To me this says two things: 1, that Jacob needs some sort of energy to have a physical form, and that Ben is keeping this energy away from him to "trap" him. This is evidenced by Jacob's sudden activity when exposed to light, and also by his secret plea to Locke for "help", which he clearly did not want Ben to hear. SO the point of all that heh is that if Jacob is living in an old fashioned cabin without any electricity, but doesn't seem to actually be opposed to electricity, it's probably because he came from a time where that was normal. To me, this has always suggested that Jacob was from the Black Rock.

Now, into the present day. We now know Widmore is the Economist. Why would he, a very rich and powerful man, insist on using outdated technology as we learn from Elsa? Maybe it is because he is actually some dude from like 1800, and getting used to even simple modern technology was good enough for him. Also, we see him buying the Black Rock journal. Well fine, maybe he was using it to get to the Island, except he later tells Ben that the Island used to be his so WHY does he need to know how to find it? And accepting that he obviously is searching for the Island, because he had trouble locating it, WHY dosn't he know how to get there anymore? And finally, accepting that he is on a successful hunt now, HOW did he know that the answer would be in some random mate's journal from some random missing boat? Why was he so sure that he was willing to pay all that money? Because it was HIS journal, and although Ben had found some way to mess with his mind when he sent him through time, he KNEW that the answers would be in there. Like Faraday, stumbling purposefully upon a note he had left himself about Desmond being his Constant, some part of Jacob Widmore's mind knew that was where he had left his answer.

Anyway, that is very crackpot, but I also think it stands on some decent reasoning and evidence, so it's not totally hairbrained.

04-29-2008, 09:39 AM	#1
woo33 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1	Whitmore Just an idea but from the last few minutes of last week's episode, I think that Whitmore is the only known suvivor of the black rock, it is his island because he "discovered" it. Linus cannot kill him b/c the island will not let him die, he has been trying to get back ever since. In Desmond's flash forward/back, Whitmore was seen buying what was actually his journal.

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05-02-2008, 10:52 AM	#2
erikau Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 283	I agree. Widmore is Jacob, Mr. Black Rock guy, being trapped somehow by Ben Linus.

05-04-2008, 01:11 AM	#3
mugatu22 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 255	Wouldn't someone in the "real world" outside of the island notice that Widmore hasn't aged...ever...if this was the case? Like Penny? Just curious. I'm not sold on the Whidmore = Jacob = original Black Rock passenger. Seems like WAAAY too much of a stretch.

05-04-2008, 04:22 PM	#4
erikau Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 283	Why wouldn't the Widmore in the "real world" age? I assume that is how Ben ages...because he often travels to the real world and his body ages normally there. Perhaps the Island is a sort of Fountain of Youth, which would explain why Widmore wants it back so badly. Think of the time line: Ben was a youngish kid when he seemingly became involved with the natives...the Purge was done about 10 years after this, and to me it appeared to be the work of Ben...that would mean somewhere between 1970-1980 real world time, Ben may have overthrown Jacob/Widmore as "the guy." To me, this puts it at the right time considering Penny's age (which I believe to be early 30s, but who knows...Sun is only supposed to be like 24 and looks older to me) for Widmore's physical self to have been sent into the future (it would have been the future for him if he is a Black Rock survivor), virtually trapped there, and thus he begins his quest to get back to the Island, but maybe starts a family along the way, which he couldn't do on the Island because of the whole pregnancy = death dealie. It just seems clear to me that Ben and Widmore are involved in a sort of competition or game with one another. They have obviously known each other, I think the scenes in which they interact indicate that clearly. If Ben has been on the Island for his adult life, that leaves two possibilities: 1) Ben met Widmore while Ben was making one of his trips to the "real world." Perhaps Ben did or said something that let Widmore know he was unusual, or with some sort of power. I guess this is possible, but seems pretty lame considering the show so far has shown Ben as nothing but very, very capable. I doubt the protector of the Island, which he is even if it is for selfish reasons, would casually allow an outsider to find out. 2) Widmore met Ben on the Island. To me, this is backed up by Widmore saying, "The Island is mine, you took it from me but it is mine." Seriously. How more clear cut can we get when it comes to Lost haha. Widmore isn't looking for the Island fot the first time, it USED TO BE his. Ben took it, somehow. To me, the whole exchange between Ben and Widmore in Widmore's bedroom suggested they were very familiar with each other, if only because they are old adversaries. Ben says Widmore "changed the rules"...this means they HAD rules. All of this suggests they have a past together. More? Jacob supposedly hates technology, as evidences by his old fashioned cabin and the fact that Ben says so. Well, Ben lies. In the initial exchange between Ben and Locke and the invisible Jacob in the cabin, when Locke turns the flashlight on, Jacob is suddenly able to manifest into blurry, but definitely there, form. He is also able to hurl Ben across the room. He doesn't attack Locke, who is holding the supposedly offensive object, but Ben. To me this says two things: 1, that Jacob needs some sort of energy to have a physical form, and that Ben is keeping this energy away from him to "trap" him. This is evidenced by Jacob's sudden activity when exposed to light, and also by his secret plea to Locke for "help", which he clearly did not want Ben to hear. SO the point of all that heh is that if Jacob is living in an old fashioned cabin without any electricity, but doesn't seem to actually be opposed to electricity, it's probably because he came from a time where that was normal. To me, this has always suggested that Jacob was from the Black Rock. Now, into the present day. We now know Widmore is the Economist. Why would he, a very rich and powerful man, insist on using outdated technology as we learn from Elsa? Maybe it is because he is actually some dude from like 1800, and getting used to even simple modern technology was good enough for him. Also, we see him buying the Black Rock journal. Well fine, maybe he was using it to get to the Island, except he later tells Ben that the Island used to be his so WHY does he need to know how to find it? And accepting that he obviously is searching for the Island, because he had trouble locating it, WHY dosn't he know how to get there anymore? And finally, accepting that he is on a successful hunt now, HOW did he know that the answer would be in some random mate's journal from some random missing boat? Why was he so sure that he was willing to pay all that money? Because it was HIS journal, and although Ben had found some way to mess with his mind when he sent him through time, he KNEW that the answers would be in there. Like Faraday, stumbling purposefully upon a note he had left himself about Desmond being his Constant, some part of Jacob Widmore's mind knew that was where he had left his answer. Anyway, that is very crackpot, but I also think it stands on some decent reasoning and evidence, so it's not totally hairbrained.