Jacob wasn't the only instigator on Lost

lostinva · 08-17-2009, 12:54 PM

From the season finale, we see Jacob going back in time on various missions to impose his thoughts or views or whatever you want to call it on our lost crash survivors. I watched an episode the other day, don't recall the title, where Sawyer is sitting in a bar, right after he had tried but failed to kill the so called Sawyer. Christian was there drinking at the bar and told Sawyer that if doing this task he had would make him feel better, than what was he sitting there for. This made me think of how Jacob was doing this with our crash victims. Sawyer would have probably never gone back and shot the man, but with Christian's probing, he did. Probably irrelevant, but I found it interesting while watching how it was similar to what Jacob was doing.

g8rfan · 08-17-2009, 01:39 PM

Good observation. I have one also regarding that scene. Christian had forgotten his wallet that night. Sawyer bought a bottle of whiskey at the bar and had only one (may two) shots from it. He left the bottle with Christian when he went to kill the guy. Christian drank himself to death that night, which makes Sawyer partially responsible.

The connections between the losties is very strong and influential. Jack chose to operate on his future wife, which resulted in Shannon's father dying. Distraught Libby gives Desmond a boat that take him to the island. And so forth. Yes, it's very similar to some of Jacob's visits. He seemed to have varying degrees of influence on them during his visits. I wonder what was in that Apollo bar he gave Jack?

touzoku · 08-17-2009, 03:29 PM

Black Suit + Black Shoes = MIB
Black Suit + White Shoes = Jacob

Dead John Locke = MIB
Dead Christian Sheppard = Jacob

sugarnuts · 08-17-2009, 03:29 PM

Yeah that was the 'outlaws' episode, one of my alltime favorites. its funny, i just finished watching that ep a couple days ago and just made that little connection to 'white rabbit' when Jack says he left his wallet, and in outlaws when Christians talking to Sawyer saying he must have misplacd his wallet. But g8rfan, i just never made the connection that Sawyer is partially responsible for his death, cause he left Christian with that whole bottle. Good job connecting the dots. Stuff like this is the reason i love Lost, its such a complete show.

g8rfan · 08-18-2009, 04:57 PM

My wife and I are watching Season 1 again to see if some things make more sense with what we know now. I just happened to see that ep the night before, so Lostinva's post was timely. I remember the Season 2 opener when Jack and Desmond had an off-island connection and I thought, What the hell? This is beyond coincidence, beyond science. I wasn't sure if I liked that direction, but now I see that it was there all along and it's great. You said it perfectly Sugarnuts, it's a complete show.

sugarnuts · 08-18-2009, 06:32 PM

Cool, im rewatching season one also, i only got two more episodes left. It's unbelievable to me how i can rewatch an episode ive already seen a few times, yet still get something new out of it each time.

Im on a mission to rewatch the entire series before the season premiere to make sure im up on my 'lost' game haha.

touzoku · 08-19-2009, 04:29 PM

I just rewatched the episodes Ekko and John go out to find "the question mark"

it obvious how the apparition of Yemi that appeared was probally sent by MIB to make Ekko convince Locke to "get back on the path"

I think "the incident" is the "Loophole" MiB found.

as long as locke keeps making it happen, then MiB can keep killing Jacob, because Mib is a dickhead.

g8rfan · 08-21-2009, 11:37 AM

Agreed, MIB is a dickhead. I don't know about the incident being the loophole, though, maybe more like a do..loop.

You bring up a part of the show that I've never understood until now (maybe), which is why I'm watching again with our Season 5 knowledge. I never understood why Ben was trying to convince Locke that the button did nothing while Yemi wanted the opposite. Now that we know Ben more, it's reasonable to assume that he just wanted Locke dead, by his own hand, because he knew Locke would be a threat to his leadership. (And because Ben is also a dickhead)

Now that we know that Yemi is likely MIB/Smokey, he/it would not want Locke to be killed because he needs him. So he uses Yemi and Eko to convince him that the button is real.

Another mystery to me has been how Locke, Eko and Desmond survived the hatch implosion. As for Desmond, his survival was probably related to his "time shift". But I think Smokey may have been responsible for pulling Locke and Eko out. We've seen it drag people before. He/it had a vested interest in Locke and possibly Eko.

It all makes more sense now.

touzoku · 08-21-2009, 09:17 PM

ok ok ok what about this, im watching the episode where john goes intot he sweat tent. He has his vision of Boone at the end of the vision Boon says "John you have to hurry, there's not much time, they've got him"

then he comes out of the tent and says "I'm going to save Ekko"

soooo assuming the vision of Yemi was from dickhead MIB and that vision is manipulating Ekko, then they could be MIB, but they would refer to more than one people.

sooooo if Jacob is leading the others, then who is MIB leading, "they've got him"

g8rfan · 08-22-2009, 06:37 AM

This may sound lame, but I think "They" refers to polar bears, though there was only one in that episode. There was definately more than one bear on the island, at least at first. If smokey did pull Eko out of the hatch, then I guess he wasn't very careful about where he dropped him off. If "They" means anything else, I can't think of what that would be.

08-17-2009, 12:54 PM	#1
lostinva Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 104	Jacob wasn't the only instigator on Lost From the season finale, we see Jacob going back in time on various missions to impose his thoughts or views or whatever you want to call it on our lost crash survivors. I watched an episode the other day, don't recall the title, where Sawyer is sitting in a bar, right after he had tried but failed to kill the so called Sawyer. Christian was there drinking at the bar and told Sawyer that if doing this task he had would make him feel better, than what was he sitting there for. This made me think of how Jacob was doing this with our crash victims. Sawyer would have probably never gone back and shot the man, but with Christian's probing, he did. Probably irrelevant, but I found it interesting while watching how it was similar to what Jacob was doing.

08-17-2009, 03:29 PM	#3
touzoku Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 334	reply Black Suit + Black Shoes = MIB Black Suit + White Shoes = Jacob Dead John Locke = MIB Dead Christian Sheppard = Jacob

08-19-2009, 04:29 PM	#7
touzoku Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 334	reply I just rewatched the episodes Ekko and John go out to find "the question mark" it obvious how the apparition of Yemi that appeared was probally sent by MIB to make Ekko convince Locke to "get back on the path" I think "the incident" is the "Loophole" MiB found. as long as locke keeps making it happen, then MiB can keep killing Jacob, because Mib is a dickhead.

08-21-2009, 09:17 PM	#9
touzoku Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 334	reply ok ok ok what about this, im watching the episode where john goes intot he sweat tent. He has his vision of Boone at the end of the vision Boon says "John you have to hurry, there's not much time, they've got him" then he comes out of the tent and says "I'm going to save Ekko" soooo assuming the vision of Yemi was from dickhead MIB and that vision is manipulating Ekko, then they could be MIB, but they would refer to more than one people. sooooo if Jacob is leading the others, then who is MIB leading, "they've got him"

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08-17-2009, 01:39 PM	#2
g8rfan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 159	Good observation. I have one also regarding that scene. Christian had forgotten his wallet that night. Sawyer bought a bottle of whiskey at the bar and had only one (may two) shots from it. He left the bottle with Christian when he went to kill the guy. Christian drank himself to death that night, which makes Sawyer partially responsible. The connections between the losties is very strong and influential. Jack chose to operate on his future wife, which resulted in Shannon's father dying. Distraught Libby gives Desmond a boat that take him to the island. And so forth. Yes, it's very similar to some of Jacob's visits. He seemed to have varying degrees of influence on them during his visits. I wonder what was in that Apollo bar he gave Jack?

08-17-2009, 03:29 PM	#4
sugarnuts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SD Posts: 671	Yeah that was the 'outlaws' episode, one of my alltime favorites. its funny, i just finished watching that ep a couple days ago and just made that little connection to 'white rabbit' when Jack says he left his wallet, and in outlaws when Christians talking to Sawyer saying he must have misplacd his wallet. But g8rfan, i just never made the connection that Sawyer is partially responsible for his death, cause he left Christian with that whole bottle. Good job connecting the dots. Stuff like this is the reason i love Lost, its such a complete show.

08-18-2009, 04:57 PM	#5
g8rfan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 159	My wife and I are watching Season 1 again to see if some things make more sense with what we know now. I just happened to see that ep the night before, so Lostinva's post was timely. I remember the Season 2 opener when Jack and Desmond had an off-island connection and I thought, What the hell? This is beyond coincidence, beyond science. I wasn't sure if I liked that direction, but now I see that it was there all along and it's great. You said it perfectly Sugarnuts, it's a complete show.

08-18-2009, 06:32 PM	#6
sugarnuts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SD Posts: 671	Cool, im rewatching season one also, i only got two more episodes left. It's unbelievable to me how i can rewatch an episode ive already seen a few times, yet still get something new out of it each time. Im on a mission to rewatch the entire series before the season premiere to make sure im up on my 'lost' game haha.

08-21-2009, 11:37 AM	#8
g8rfan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 159	Agreed, MIB is a dickhead. I don't know about the incident being the loophole, though, maybe more like a do..loop. You bring up a part of the show that I've never understood until now (maybe), which is why I'm watching again with our Season 5 knowledge. I never understood why Ben was trying to convince Locke that the button did nothing while Yemi wanted the opposite. Now that we know Ben more, it's reasonable to assume that he just wanted Locke dead, by his own hand, because he knew Locke would be a threat to his leadership. (And because Ben is also a dickhead) Now that we know that Yemi is likely MIB/Smokey, he/it would not want Locke to be killed because he needs him. So he uses Yemi and Eko to convince him that the button is real. Another mystery to me has been how Locke, Eko and Desmond survived the hatch implosion. As for Desmond, his survival was probably related to his "time shift". But I think Smokey may have been responsible for pulling Locke and Eko out. We've seen it drag people before. He/it had a vested interest in Locke and possibly Eko. It all makes more sense now.

08-22-2009, 06:37 AM	#10
g8rfan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 159	This may sound lame, but I think "They" refers to polar bears, though there was only one in that episode. There was definately more than one bear on the island, at least at first. If smokey did pull Eko out of the hatch, then I guess he wasn't very careful about where he dropped him off. If "They" means anything else, I can't think of what that would be.