The Temple and Rebirth

erikau · 04-03-2009, 02:18 PM

So Kate brings Alpert a mortally wounded lil Ben, and he says he can help him, but that it will change Ben forever, take away his innocence and his memory, and make him an Other for life. Then he carries him into the temple, whic is covered in hieroglyphics, on an Island that contains a large Egyptian-esque statue holding ankhs, the symbol for eternal life.

I think of it as a rebirth...you are brought into the Temple and "reborn," a new soul in your old body, an "Other" soul. That is why Danielle's team did not care for her anymore...she was just an artifact from some past, insignificant existence. That is why Ben said he was born on the Island...he wasn't lying, that was the only birth that was important to him. Once you go into the Temple, you are a shadow of your former self, an Other, a protector of the Island.

So Alpert, all the real Others, they are all dead bodies who have been reborn with new souls. Is this what happened to Christian, Locke...it happened to them without having to physically enter the Temple? Is it why the Others don't age? Their bodies are dead, but with "living" souls? This would explain why they can't procreate. It also may explain why Amy insisted that the Others Sawyer shot be buried, and buried well. As long as they were buried, they couldn't be reanimated with new souls. That is why Alpert needed Paul's body...it wasn't just to prove justice had been served, as his word should have been good enough, it was because Paul hadn't been buried yet and therefore could still be brought back, as a replacement for the killed Others. Paul's ankh necklace would be a clue, as the symbol for eternal life that he was going to be brought back.

sugarnuts · 04-03-2009, 03:59 PM

I agree. I've been saying for a while that i think Alpert is dead, thats why he doesn't age. But i don't think it's as common as you suggested. We know Widmore wasn't reborn, and i think the conflict we're gonna see within the ranks of the others is gonna be between the "re-born" and the normal people. (Alpert/Ben vs. Widmore)

I don't it has much to do with the pregnancy problems though. The women had fetuses inside them and died during the process of forming a baby. I doubt a dead guys body would even be able to get that process going.

i think smokey has a lot to do with the re-birthing process, because i also think Locke is 'technically' and other, and always has been since he 'met' smokey in walkabout. I don't think the temple is a vital part in the process, just more of like a place where it is preferably done. Like Baptism in a church.

"I've looked into the eye of the island and what i saw..... was beautiful." i think that is how people are 'reborn', smokey does something to them. It shows them something, like a bright white light.

Lurcher · 04-06-2009, 02:11 AM

On the 'smokey' front i'd noticed after John's first encounter he could predict the rainfall and knew his was reasonably well around the island. Eko was shown small, dull flashes in which you could see images of his past- not really along the lines of 'a bright white light', however in season 3 when Kate and Juliet are cowering from it beneath the ever-conveniently- located banyan roots, it waits til Kate is covering her eyes and flashes bright lights into Juliets face, almost as though it's uploading information to her

sugarnuts · 04-06-2009, 01:54 PM

Good observations lurcher. i think that what smokey was doing to Eko and Kate and Juliet was taking information from them. When smokey confronts eko, the camera slowly revolves through smokey and if you set watch it frame by frame, you see pictures of Eko's past. I would assume this is smokey learning about Eko. I think it was doing the same thing with kate and Juliet.

Likewise, that could be what Locke was describing. Instead of his theory that he was looking into the 'eye' of the island, Smokey could just have been learning about him.

04-03-2009, 02:18 PM	#1
erikau Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 419	The Temple and Rebirth So Kate brings Alpert a mortally wounded lil Ben, and he says he can help him, but that it will change Ben forever, take away his innocence and his memory, and make him an Other for life. Then he carries him into the temple, whic is covered in hieroglyphics, on an Island that contains a large Egyptian-esque statue holding ankhs, the symbol for eternal life. I think of it as a rebirth...you are brought into the Temple and "reborn," a new soul in your old body, an "Other" soul. That is why Danielle's team did not care for her anymore...she was just an artifact from some past, insignificant existence. That is why Ben said he was born on the Island...he wasn't lying, that was the only birth that was important to him. Once you go into the Temple, you are a shadow of your former self, an Other, a protector of the Island. So Alpert, all the real Others, they are all dead bodies who have been reborn with new souls. Is this what happened to Christian, Locke...it happened to them without having to physically enter the Temple? Is it why the Others don't age? Their bodies are dead, but with "living" souls? This would explain why they can't procreate. It also may explain why Amy insisted that the Others Sawyer shot be buried, and buried well. As long as they were buried, they couldn't be reanimated with new souls. That is why Alpert needed Paul's body...it wasn't just to prove justice had been served, as his word should have been good enough, it was because Paul hadn't been buried yet and therefore could still be brought back, as a replacement for the killed Others. Paul's ankh necklace would be a clue, as the symbol for eternal life that he was going to be brought back.

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04-03-2009, 03:59 PM	#2
sugarnuts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SD Posts: 671	I agree. I've been saying for a while that i think Alpert is dead, thats why he doesn't age. But i don't think it's as common as you suggested. We know Widmore wasn't reborn, and i think the conflict we're gonna see within the ranks of the others is gonna be between the "re-born" and the normal people. (Alpert/Ben vs. Widmore) I don't it has much to do with the pregnancy problems though. The women had fetuses inside them and died during the process of forming a baby. I doubt a dead guys body would even be able to get that process going. i think smokey has a lot to do with the re-birthing process, because i also think Locke is 'technically' and other, and always has been since he 'met' smokey in walkabout. I don't think the temple is a vital part in the process, just more of like a place where it is preferably done. Like Baptism in a church. "I've looked into the eye of the island and what i saw..... was beautiful." i think that is how people are 'reborn', smokey does something to them. It shows them something, like a bright white light.

04-06-2009, 02:11 AM	#3
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	On the 'smokey' front i'd noticed after John's first encounter he could predict the rainfall and knew his was reasonably well around the island. Eko was shown small, dull flashes in which you could see images of his past- not really along the lines of 'a bright white light', however in season 3 when Kate and Juliet are cowering from it beneath the ever-conveniently- located banyan roots, it waits til Kate is covering her eyes and flashes bright lights into Juliets face, almost as though it's uploading information to her

04-06-2009, 01:54 PM	#4
sugarnuts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SD Posts: 671	Good observations lurcher. i think that what smokey was doing to Eko and Kate and Juliet was taking information from them. When smokey confronts eko, the camera slowly revolves through smokey and if you set watch it frame by frame, you see pictures of Eko's past. I would assume this is smokey learning about Eko. I think it was doing the same thing with kate and Juliet. Likewise, that could be what Locke was describing. Instead of his theory that he was looking into the 'eye' of the island, Smokey could just have been learning about him.