Ethan Rom/Goodspeed and Course Correction

erikau · 03-25-2009, 02:54 PM

I know we have heardmtime nad time again that the universe has a way of correcting itself, but I don't believe course correction happens on the Island. I think that while Daniel (and maybe Eloise) understands the mystical properties that allow the Island to bend time and space, he does not fully grasp the idea that the Island is not subject to the same physical laws as the rest of the universe. Think Einstein's theory of relativity...objects not in uniform motion with one another are not bound by identical physical principles. If the Island is moving around faster than the speed of light, which would both explain the bright flashes and the time shifts, according to Einstein it would be in relative motion to the rest of the world around it...our normal earth so to speak haha. Therefore to me, the Island stretches and mends the spacetime fabric of the earth, while remaining outside of it. When Ms. Hawking says, "The Universe has a way of correcting itself" she is talking about the Island...the Island IS the way the universe course corrects. It is the one place on earth not bound by the physics of time as we understand it, thus the rules do not apply there.

In a way, Daniel PROVED it. He was able to speak to Desmond, in 2004, when Faraday shouldn't have even been on the Island. He chocks it up to being a Constant, I don't.

So, here is my theory and how it applies to Ethan. If Sawyer has not shot those two Others in La Fleur, it is clear to me that they would have taken Amy. They were putting a bag on her head, like they did every time they stole someone, and I really don't think they were about to kill her. We know that she later mothers Ethan. So in my theory, the first time she went through 1977, she was stolen by the Others, and fathered a true Other child.

The first time around, I'm going to say that yes, she did get kidnapped by those two Others. They took her, and made her an Other. Maybe she would have played double agent like Ben, or maybe she just leaves Dharma. She meets some sweet Other man, gets pregnant, has little Ethan Rom. He is truly an Other, and lives as one.

Fast Forward to the second 70s haha, when our 815ers step in. If we assume that the future is unchangeable, then nothing they do should effect the future...their past...that they already lived. BUT, then why is Ethan Rom named Ethan Romin 2004, not Ethan Goodspeed? If the Ethan that the 815ers knew in 2004 is the same one that Juliette birthed, and clearly it is supposed to be, then his name should be Ethan Goodspeed (as he is the son of Amy and Horace Goodspeed). Ben Linus didn't change his name when he joined the Others, so simply assuming that Ethan will grow up and switch over like Ben just doesn't really work for me. He wouldn't change his name, he would have no reason to. Now, I suppose Rom could be Amy's last name, Since we weren't given one. I just have a feeling that it isn't...that Sawyer and Juliette did mess something up when they interfered with Amy's kidnapping/murder. If Ethan was born as Dharma, why would he assist with the Purge? He will have parents, and a good life in Dharmaville..he's certainly no Ben Linus with all those mommy issues.

If things happened in 1977 #1 the same way they are now happening in 1977#2, then I see no logical progression for what would cause little Ethan to grow up, turn on his parents, and assist Ben with the Purge, becoming the Other Man.

sugarnuts · 03-25-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

I know we have heardmtime nad time again that the universe has a way of correcting itself, but I don't believe course correction happens on the Island. I think that while Daniel (and maybe Eloise) understands the mystical properties that allow the Island to bend time and space, he does not fully grasp the idea that the Island is not subject to the same physical [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]laws[/color][/color] as the rest of the universe. Think Einstein's theory of relativity...objects not in [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]uniform[/color][/color] motion with one another are not bound by identical physical principles. If the Island is moving around faster than the speed of light, which would both explain the bright flashes and the time shifts, according to Einstein it would be in relative motion to the rest of the world around it...our normal earth so to speak haha. Therefore to me, the Island stretches and mends the spacetime [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]fabric[/color][/color] of the earth, while remaining outside of it. When Ms. Hawking says, "The Universe has a way of correcting itself" she is talking about the Island...the Island IS the way the universe course corrects. It is the one place on earth not bound by the physics of time as we understand it, thus the rules do not apply there.

I like your idea that the island is outside the limits of time (as in 'unchangeable'). We can't expect Faraday to be right every single time, and it is definetly possible that he is mistaken on his theory of time being 100% set in stone, irreversable.

Who says he knows everything about the island's "unique properties"?

bsmittyau · 03-25-2009, 10:43 PM

There was an exchange between Daniel and Sawyer before they saved Amy...I think Sawyer asked him something along the lines of "What do we do?"

Did Daniel tell him "Whatever happened, happened"? I don't exactly remember his answer to the question. Or did he say something like "Do whatever you want"? I know he was pretty pissed about Charlotte, and I think I remember expecting one answer from him and hearing another.

Lurcher · 03-26-2009, 05:11 AM

I think you're onto something when you say the island is exempt from the rules of space-time, perhaps it is 'the variable'? That would be why Dharma were there in the first place, perhaps changing something on the island changes the rest of the world?
Ethan could feasibly have grown up to be such a good doctor the others kidnapped him before the purge to help with their new found fertility problems, i'd like to think you're right about Amy though, as it's not what i've been thinking at all! Doesn't explain why he's the oldest looking 27 year old on the block in 2004 though, unless Richard ate his youth

Lurcher · 03-26-2009, 08:02 AM

Don't forget, DHARMA are a bunch of hippies, and may not name children the way we would. Ben was born off island and was thus named after his father. Ethan, being born to two island dwelling vw campervan owners, is lucky not to be called 'Ethan Golden Moonchild Sunbiscuits'!
Could Amy be short for 'Amelia', the elderly other that we met in season 3, who people speculated to be Ms Earhart? Opens up a whole new debate if it is... 'I followed my dead husband into the woods and this dude called Richard said i could stay round his place for a bit, while he helped kill all my friends'

erikau · 03-26-2009, 08:27 AM

Lurcher, I actually am starting to agree with you about Amy. The more I think about it, the more I think Paul (her...uh, "dead" husband) is probably his father. I think it was very strange that Alpert had to take the body back to his people...his word to them that he was dead should have been good enough, he's Richard Freakin Alpert. The need for his body...maybe to replace the two Others that were killed, and already buried? I believe there is some possibility for resurrection, so to speak, on the Isalnd, and I think Richard took that body because he needed to reanimate it, needed it to keep up his own population.

The night Amy went into labor, Horace was pissed and drunk because he found Paul's ankh necklace in Amy's drawer....the ankh is the symbol for eternal life. We know that Paul is supposed to be dead, but so was Ben's mom...and not only is she the one who lured him to the woods the night he met Richard for the first time, but Ben also later tells someone while on the Ajira Flight 316 that his MOTHER taught him to read....it was a very real moment with Ben, and I do believe that one way or another his "dead" mother was able to help raise him on the Island. Maybe much in the same way Paul, came back to get Amy and invite him to join his new people, the Others. She loved him...maybe he got her pregnant, and is Ethan's real father. To me, that is really the only way I could see him being a part of the Purge. Otherwise, it just it senseless to me, since Ethan clearly will have much nicer parents than drunk, abusive Roger Linus.

Haha, I really like the Hippie name part.

But yes, all in all I'm not 100% on Ethan's sitaton right now, but I still believe I am correct about the nature of the Island. If anything, last night's episode proved it, but I don't want to spoil for those who haven't watched yet.

Lurcher · 03-26-2009, 08:54 AM

I hadn't even entertained the 'Paul as Ethans father' thought- it's brilliant! I had been thinking it happens later, when Ethan's a boy.
I don't think Richard's entirely trusted by his own people, he maybe has his own twisted agenda. Widmore didn't seem to respect him much despite his superiority.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

03-25-2009, 02:54 PM	#1
erikau Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 419	Ethan Rom/Goodspeed and Course Correction I know we have heardmtime nad time again that the universe has a way of correcting itself, but I don't believe course correction happens on the Island. I think that while Daniel (and maybe Eloise) understands the mystical properties that allow the Island to bend time and space, he does not fully grasp the idea that the Island is not subject to the same physical laws as the rest of the universe. Think Einstein's theory of relativity...objects not in uniform motion with one another are not bound by identical physical principles. If the Island is moving around faster than the speed of light, which would both explain the bright flashes and the time shifts, according to Einstein it would be in relative motion to the rest of the world around it...our normal earth so to speak haha. Therefore to me, the Island stretches and mends the spacetime fabric of the earth, while remaining outside of it. When Ms. Hawking says, "The Universe has a way of correcting itself" she is talking about the Island...the Island IS the way the universe course corrects. It is the one place on earth not bound by the physics of time as we understand it, thus the rules do not apply there. In a way, Daniel PROVED it. He was able to speak to Desmond, in 2004, when Faraday shouldn't have even been on the Island. He chocks it up to being a Constant, I don't. So, here is my theory and how it applies to Ethan. If Sawyer has not shot those two Others in La Fleur, it is clear to me that they would have taken Amy. They were putting a bag on her head, like they did every time they stole someone, and I really don't think they were about to kill her. We know that she later mothers Ethan. So in my theory, the first time she went through 1977, she was stolen by the Others, and fathered a true Other child. The first time around, I'm going to say that yes, she did get kidnapped by those two Others. They took her, and made her an Other. Maybe she would have played double agent like Ben, or maybe she just leaves Dharma. She meets some sweet Other man, gets pregnant, has little Ethan Rom. He is truly an Other, and lives as one. Fast Forward to the second 70s haha, when our 815ers step in. If we assume that the future is unchangeable, then nothing they do should effect the future...their past...that they already lived. BUT, then why is Ethan Rom named Ethan Romin 2004, not Ethan Goodspeed? If the Ethan that the 815ers knew in 2004 is the same one that Juliette birthed, and clearly it is supposed to be, then his name should be Ethan Goodspeed (as he is the son of Amy and Horace Goodspeed). Ben Linus didn't change his name when he joined the Others, so simply assuming that Ethan will grow up and switch over like Ben just doesn't really work for me. He wouldn't change his name, he would have no reason to. Now, I suppose Rom could be Amy's last name, Since we weren't given one. I just have a feeling that it isn't...that Sawyer and Juliette did mess something up when they interfered with Amy's kidnapping/murder. If Ethan was born as Dharma, why would he assist with the Purge? He will have parents, and a good life in Dharmaville..he's certainly no Ben Linus with all those mommy issues. If things happened in 1977 #1 the same way they are now happening in 1977#2, then I see no logical progression for what would cause little Ethan to grow up, turn on his parents, and assist Ben with the Purge, becoming the Other Man.

03-25-2009, 10:43 PM	#3
bsmittyau Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 11	There was an exchange between Daniel and Sawyer before they saved Amy...I think Sawyer asked him something along the lines of "What do we do?" Did Daniel tell him "Whatever happened, happened"? I don't exactly remember his answer to the question. Or did he say something like "Do whatever you want"? I know he was pretty pissed about Charlotte, and I think I remember expecting one answer from him and hearing another.

03-26-2009, 05:11 AM	#4
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	I think you're onto something when you say the island is exempt from the rules of space-time, perhaps it is 'the variable'? That would be why Dharma were there in the first place, perhaps changing something on the island changes the rest of the world? Ethan could feasibly have grown up to be such a good doctor the others kidnapped him before the purge to help with their new found fertility problems, i'd like to think you're right about Amy though, as it's not what i've been thinking at all! Doesn't explain why he's the oldest looking 27 year old on the block in 2004 though, unless Richard ate his youth

03-26-2009, 08:02 AM	#5
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	Don't forget, DHARMA are a bunch of hippies, and may not name children the way we would. Ben was born off island and was thus named after his father. Ethan, being born to two island dwelling vw campervan owners, is lucky not to be called 'Ethan Golden Moonchild Sunbiscuits'! Could Amy be short for 'Amelia', the elderly other that we met in season 3, who people speculated to be Ms Earhart? Opens up a whole new debate if it is... 'I followed my dead husband into the woods and this dude called Richard said i could stay round his place for a bit, while he helped kill all my friends'

03-26-2009, 08:27 AM	#6
erikau Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 419	Lurcher, I actually am starting to agree with you about Amy. The more I think about it, the more I think Paul (her...uh, "dead" husband) is probably his father. I think it was very strange that Alpert had to take the body back to his people...his word to them that he was dead should have been good enough, he's Richard Freakin Alpert. The need for his body...maybe to replace the two Others that were killed, and already buried? I believe there is some possibility for resurrection, so to speak, on the Isalnd, and I think Richard took that body because he needed to reanimate it, needed it to keep up his own population. The night Amy went into labor, Horace was pissed and drunk because he found Paul's ankh necklace in Amy's drawer....the ankh is the symbol for eternal life. We know that Paul is supposed to be dead, but so was Ben's mom...and not only is she the one who lured him to the woods the night he met Richard for the first time, but Ben also later tells someone while on the Ajira Flight 316 that his MOTHER taught him to read....it was a very real moment with Ben, and I do believe that one way or another his "dead" mother was able to help raise him on the Island. Maybe much in the same way Paul, came back to get Amy and invite him to join his new people, the Others. She loved him...maybe he got her pregnant, and is Ethan's real father. To me, that is really the only way I could see him being a part of the Purge. Otherwise, it just it senseless to me, since Ethan clearly will have much nicer parents than drunk, abusive Roger Linus. Haha, I really like the Hippie name part. But yes, all in all I'm not 100% on Ethan's sitaton right now, but I still believe I am correct about the nature of the Island. If anything, last night's episode proved it, but I don't want to spoil for those who haven't watched yet.

03-26-2009, 08:54 AM	#7
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	I hadn't even entertained the 'Paul as Ethans father' thought- it's brilliant! I had been thinking it happens later, when Ethan's a boy. I don't think Richard's entirely trusted by his own people, he maybe has his own twisted agenda. Widmore didn't seem to respect him much despite his superiority.