Doppelganger 1969

[erikau]

T, not to be a jerk, but I'm pretty sure all it would take it a big freaking bomb. Michael has a nuclear bomb on the freighter. Keamy has some sort of detonation looking device strapped to him. Maybe he's got his own bomb.

Also, when Keamy brings out Protocol 2, he says he is doing so because Widmore realized BEN'S plan: to burn the Island. Protocol 2 apparently will stop Ben from doing so, but all the same, Ben was trying to "destroy" the Island. To destroy something doesn't necessarily mean to take it out of existence. Perhaps all they mean by destroying the Island, is destroying that which makes the Island special. Then it would just be any other place, and not a threat or asset to anyone.

[Talontbo]

well Erikua,

I would never take your remarks as Jerkish..

thats said... Fish.. after jabbing my Grammer.. used the phrase ... "AN" Island can be destroyed...

and then continues to say it is not about Its Physical Destruction... which is exactly what we knew...

Destroying AN Island.. is not an easy proposition.. to be sure... Krakatoa.. the most devastating explosion in human history took out only 2/3rds of an Island... Test explosions at Bikini Atoll in the lagoon.. failed to destroy the actual Atoll completely... and Our Island.. is by and far, much much much bigger....

His post was a jab.. I may perhaps use a style of grammar Fish doesn't like... ok.. but I am not writing my Doctoral Thesis.. I am posting to an informal Internet Forum.. and prefer to compose my thoughts in a manner consistent with the Slang Southern American English Dialect I am most comfortable with... I do not spell check.. though from time to time, I go back and correct as I see it, after the fact.

if he wants to knit pick.. I to can play that game.....

as for Michael... pretty sure that bomb was C4....and not nuclear... Even the Swan hatch Device failed to destroy much... and the weapons we saw Keamy Load would hardly scratch the islands surface... so again I submit, "The Island" is a metaphor.. to describe Ben's Utopian Society, and it is this that is meant to be destroyed, not the physical Island..

I was pretty sure.. Keamy meant... Ben's last place to be SAFE.. he was reading that file for the whereabouts of the Temple... Keamy and his men are going to kill everyone on the Island..

[Talontbo]

something some of us may have forgotten...


and it relates to "Journey to the far side of the sun"


When Walt appears to Shannon.. in the tent Sayid Built for Shannon... Walt is dripping water.... Water, Erikua...

but more importantly... He was talking...... SDRAWKCAB.......... BACKWARDS

Just thought I would include this...

[Francis Lee]

i have no idea what you guys are talking about but when i saw the name doppelganger...i thought i'd share something to whoever is willing to believe

i am very positive i had an experience with a doppelganger around 3 months ago..here

i work in a building where i do security work in graveyard hours, one night i was as usual waiting for the 1 guy to come down stairs to have a smoke seeing as i have to be at the desk in the lobby for anyone to be allowed outside, theres only one way in and out for those who go out for smokes at this time, this designated time is 4am, well before i continue, at 2 am, the the other time ppl are allowed out i told this person i would meet him in the lobby at 4am.

so i get to the lobby at that time, the elavtor sounds when someone comes out of it, it goes off at roughly 4:10am and here comes bill, with a smirk on his face, he says hi and just goes outside through the motion sensor doors (i saw the doors open and close) but it was odd seeing as he usually says something before he goes out, he never just says hi and goes outside...it takes no longer than 20 mintues to have the 2 smokes he lights up, 40 minutes goes by which was very unusual, i specifically remember looking at the clock ( which was 4:50am) thinking "when is this guy coming back in?" because i still had tasks that were to be done...

then off goes the elevator sound again, and AGAIN, here comes bill, but this time, he's rubbing his eyes and stops for a second before he goes out, i said "what are you doing having a smoke again? you just came down not even an hour ago, i never heard nor seen you come back in" is mostly what i said, he says "what? no i wasn't, i just woke up"...after he said that i went into shock a little bit, i was spooked and very puzzled but i know what i saw, i was awake and alert when i thought i was waiting for him the 1st time, i was on websites reading before 4:50 am hit.

I told him what i thought happened, this man is much older than i am and is set stone in his ways, he thinks im crazy and was seeing things when i havent hallucinated once in my life..it was the next night at the end of my shift when my supervisor came in, i told her and she was like "well lets look at the tapes" turns out, nothing had appeared on the camera in the lobby at the time i thought he came down the 1st time, but when the real him came down, at 10 to 5, it showed him on camera which is very strange because the camera only records when something is moving in it's sight range

strange huh? i kid you not, there was 1 other incident a couple months before at the same building but i guess you probly wont believe me anyways...plus 2 more minor incidents 4 or 5 years ago before in my life...too bad i dont remember much when i was a kid, there may have been many times i encountered ghosts but do not rememer...that was my only doppelganger story though

this doesnt mean im special or anything, im not hurley dude

[Talontbo]

hey Francis...

I think you may have the phrase a bit confused... a Doppleganger is a person exact Double... by most definitions.... What you describe doesn't quite fit that....

None the less... very interesting account of your strange night..

This leads me to a question...

When you went back to review the tapes... and you did not see Bill come out at the earlier time...

Did you happen to see yourself???? or were you only concerned with the Elevator and his appears???

I ask because I would be interested to know exactly what you were doing>>> ??? did the camera also capture you from another angle???

Sometimes... in the course of our daily lives... Routine can and does play tricks... Like,,,

In my profession... I have a set routine for the opening and closing of business.... I do this simply by habit now.. without thinking..having done it for 30+ years.... I can't even being to count how many times I would get half way home... and think.... did I lock the safe??? or... did I put away this item or that...

Problem here is... I could not rely on my memory.. as I may be just replaces yesterdays or last week memory... there was room for error... as every days events are identical... I would have to turn around and go back... verify first hand to be 100% sure..

so here... think on this... as your routine allows for duplicate memories day to day...

Did you see what you thought your saw?..... or
Did you see what you were thinking you were going to see?

as a matter of habit... I would not be surprised... that for even a brief flash of thought to seem so real... especially when you have seen that event.. time and time again...

I would also guess.. the First Time Bill popped down for a smoke.. and the second real time he popped down for a smoke....

you probably did not even take note of what either were wearing.. that you focus was one th face.. and the words... and nothing else... this also would be habit.. especially if Bill tends to dress in similar clothes from day to day... But if you though real hard... the First event you might find he was dressed as he was... the day before.. or last week.. and it was merely a Flash Recalled Memory... as real as it seemed.. it was just phantom thought of an event that was already expected to happen and has happened some many times before in exactly the same way.. time and time again....


as for the Thread title.... I started it mostly based on a few things..

Jack continued dismantling.. his steady emotional and physical decline...
Hurley's as well.. and the ultimate feeling of being out of place...

it reminded me of the mivie I listed in my opening post..

Journey to the Far Side of the Sun...

you can read its synopsis on IMDB.COM

watching it would be so much better... but its old and probably a bit hard to find...

I enjoyed you storied... if you continue having these.. and the frequency of these events increases.. yo may wish to consider... possibly.. LOL..... an MRI...... LOL.... I hope not... just teasing... isn't the imagination truly amazing...?????

[Francis Lee]

"a ghostly counterpart of a living person" is what a doppelganger is to me and that is exactly what i saw.

thats whats i was saying, on the tapes, the time he came down the 1st time which was his ghost per say, didnt show him but the time when i asked him why he was down so early after just smoking was shown..the thing is though, where im at in the camera frame cant be seen, the office im in is out of range, i have to walk around the lobby for me to appear on camera but i was seated watching him say hi and leave, it was him, same clothes and everything.

it was just so strange watching him go out, when he goes out, i have to stay in the lobby for the duration and theres no way he came in without me seeing him, it`s just not feasable (is that how you spell it...) so thats why i was shocked to see him come out the elevator again and go out in the same direction, and you gotta take into consideration that he`s disabled so to speak because he rides one of those big scooters all the time, he cant walk all that well because of his back, he`s an older guy but has all his wits still.

its also very odd how he was rubbing his eyes when he came down when it was the real him, when before he was slightly smiling (the sinister version of him, it explains it all if you google doppelganger) i say it`s odd because it just so happens about a week or so before that, i was reading up on the term and i cant find the article anymore but i found a site that went into great detail of how someone`s ghostly double can be seen....it`s not in all cases but apparently it has something to do with when someone falls into a coma like sleep, someone`s ghostly double can be seen by others..my recollection of the article is poor but the fact that bill has level 1 epilepsy kind of tied the article and him together, in my mind i mean. am i making senseÉ

it is however possible that i did fall asleep for a minute or so without noticing but because of another incident months before in the same building mind you, made me think it really was real...when i was in the lobby, i heard the tap go off in the dining room, i go there and the sink is dry, it was out loud too, not muffled like it came from inside an apartment..later on the same night, i was cleaning the floor when suddenly i heard a loud cough behind me, i turned around and nothing was there...i can go on and on about this ****, im really open minded when it comes to these kinds of things...my buddy says it was possibly me in another dimension that was coughing but in the same place, ever heard of this crazyness...

yeah i believe alot of these events because supernatural **** has been happening since i was 15...2 events at 15 and then now at this place that i work...im not nuts man lol and no it hasnt happened since, it was a once in a lifetime thing. my mom has also had weird things happen when she was growing up only she`s actually seen ghosts, i never seen a ghost, just heard one say my name (1 of 2 events that went down when i was 15)...i dont know if it`s because im native that im more prone to these things or what but ive never had a serious event happen, the name calling was creeeepy!!

it just previous events that happened before that has me thinking i really did experience one...if i didnt, i`ll ask the powers that be when im dead lol

man....i would make a good fit for the island if it was real..the smoke monster would be all over me

[Talontbo]

Ok. Francis..

Norse.. Vardoger... is a ghostly double.. Doppleganger is German.. there is a difference...There is also another description of Doppleganger but it is less common and refers to seeing ones self in the peripheral.... out of the corner of the eye....

what you describe is more the Norse... Vardoger... and is still creepy.... LOL.... that exact thing has never happened to me before... although I have had a couple possible paranormal experiences... and I saw the Mt. Vernon Monster one night... (limited internet articles on this)... and a possible UFO way back in the mid 60's.... though this was possibly a military object of some kind... being outside D.C. this is not always that uncommon.. then or now....

as for your happening... again... very creepy.. But I have heard tell of people that are more sensitive to these type things... no necessarily clairvoyant or ESP... or paranormal psychic abilities... as much as a paranormal hyper sensitivity.... perhaps this is you... why haven't you ever pursued honing this possible sense???

If I thought I had some flaked out ability such as you describe... I think I would explore it deeper... if for no other reason than to amuse myself.. but hey.. thats just me...

I really wish you had also been on video... I think that would have been very telling indeed. and may have lent an additional level to your story as you relayed it to your supervisor... think how it would have been.... the video showing you wide awake, responding to someone not there....very cool....

well.... I hope you have more... and I hope you can confirm them... that would be amazing....

[Francis Lee]

i cant, it's not in my control...theres just alot of things that just randomly happen but they're few and far between most of the time, i wasnt the only one who had an experiece with whatever called my name...

i wish i could explore it more but how would i do that, no idea...you can't force it, im sure someday something else will happen, the day i actually physically see an apparition of some sort, i'll know everything was real...i believe so now but that would cement it all

[tailhook]

Originally Posted by erikau

There is no way there are two Islands. What I WILL believe is this: Look at the Orchid video, and the Kasmir effect you talk about so much. I don't think there are two Islands, but rather version of the same Island, in different places in time. The Island can displace itself in time. While most of us FOOLS are bound by TIME and SPACE, the Island and Ben know the real deal. This is also how Ben will "move" the Island. He won't physically move it out of the sea, he will move it in time.

Think of time and space like you would think of as x and y vectors on a graph. On any graph, knowing just the "x" or just the "y" coordinate is not enough. It is the (x,y) coordinate that matters. Likewise, just where you are in time, or where you are in space, isn't all that significant in Lost. It's where you are in TIME and SPACE.

Got me? haha

Nope.. capitalizing nouns in a sentence from the show doesn't make your point clearer nor does it in any way help prove it. Maybe you should go for italics and maybe bold the words next time, splash in a little color! That'll prove it and everyone is sure to agree with you then.

-TH

[erikau]

Tailhook, there is really no need to be snarky. First of all, I did do my best to prove my theory. Within physics there is more than one conception of time and space, how they relate and how one can travel them, and my theory is based on a specific model of that: time and space as separate, yet intersecting planes.

Anyway, capitalization is often used for emphasis, but I'm sure you know this. Since on forums the best we can do it put words on a screen and hope readers grasp intent, it is up to the author to be as clear as they can. I emphasize certain words just to make it clear that they are central to the point, just like someone would emphasize the word while speaking. Attacking some one for the font they use, or the style they use, and not saying a SINGLE WORD about the theory they have presented is really, really useless.