Losties and Native Fathers?

[erikau]

I wish we knew for 100% certain that Walt was Michael's son. Something is starting to give me the impression that the important thing about Ben, Locke, Walt, Aaron, is that their father's are Native Islanders. Think about it: babies cannot be born on the Island. So, if you are a race of super special non-aging Island folk, do you just be content with never having a new face, or using your ability to leave the Island and enter the real world, do you make some babies there? Then, maybe you set it up so that you get your kids back somehow,even if it is years later?

I know this is a stretch. Here is what we know, though: we know that the person we were told is Locke's father is a conman, and his "mother" was being paid to set him up. When meanie Grandma Locke saw Alpert outside the hospital room, she looked disturbed to sew him. I know some will say that it was just the site of a man staring. but Richard Alpert is a sexy beast, was dressed well, and didn't look scary or threatening. Also, when the doctor asked if it was the father, she was obviously uncomfortable and lied. Now, I am NOT saying that I think Alpert is for sure Locke's dad, but Grandma Locke had definitely seen him before. He seemed to be about the right age for Grandma Locke to have said "He's twice your age" to Emily.

In all the other cases...Ben, Aaron, Walt...we are given fathers. BUT, can we trust it? Claire's boyfriend, well we don't know who he really was, but it seems to me that Claire had a strong destiny when it came to Aaron and the Island. Her boyfriend, who we know nothing about except that there are paintings on the Island that look very similar to ones he did, could have been a Native playing house in the real world for a little while.

Walt: we know that Susan and Michael were having problems, Walt's young life was a mess. Add to that his constant insistence, which was NEVER reconciled, that Michael IS NOT HIS DAD. Now, this can be taken obviously, as the angry words of a young man who grew up without him. But Walt is special...maybe he senses that Michael REALLY ISN'T his father. Michael may believe he is, but perhaps Susan had an affair with a certain creepy ass orderly.

Ben: Roger Linus is an asshole. Is his disinterest in Ben's existence really because Emily died in childbirth? Or, is it that Emily died in childbirth with a kid that Roger knew wasn't his? Or, that Roger learned wasn't his later in life, when he had to take blood test for something or other.

I know this is a stretch, kind of a huge one, but I think it would be REALLY cool if we find out that people who end up on the Island are just descendants opf the Natives, being called back home. Abaddon and Alpert may just be recruiters, making sure the good and bad guys are where they need to be, but maybe they are more...

[lost_grrl]

I created this thread based on an excellent post by erikau. I was so compelled by it that I thought it warranted it's own thread. And I am a mod, so lol

We have, from the very beginning, noticed that there was a very pervasive connection among the Losties (and now Ben) that we had any paternal information about at all, and that is that there were some serious issues.

As Erik points out, Walt, who has some sort of supernatural abilities, repeatedly said to Michael that he was not his father.

Jack and Claire, share the same father (who is now a part of the island) who was no good for either of them.

I am thoroughly convinced that Richard is John's father. After the episode where we found out that he was conned out of his kidney, there was intense debate over whether or not the con man was actually his biological father or not. I fell firmly on the side that he was his father--that the relationship had not been part of the cob. I now disagree am as sure as anyone can be about anything on this show that isn't spelled out that Richard Alpert is John's father.

Hurley's father was never there, quite literally. Could he have been on the island, letting someone raise his son until it was time for return?

Kate was also raised by a man she thought was her father but turned out not to be. Although I doubt that Wayne was a Native Islander, he did seem to "speak" to Kate through Sawyer when Sawyer was unconscious ("What Kate Did")...saying "You killed me. Why did you kill me?"

What are all y'alls thoughts on the matter?

[sugarnuts]

Great ideas, its certainly possible that the 'special' losties have a paternal connection to the island.
It could be true for many of the characters, but i just dont see it in Walt.
I am convinced Michael is Walt's father, until the show proves otherwise. I mean, any little kid will scream "your not my father" to his dad if he's angry at him, that doesn't prove anyhting. I'll admit, it could be a clue from the writers but I highly doubt it.
I like the thoughts on Alpert being Locke's father and i think it would be a great twist but i still think Locke's dad is the con man. I can just picture him taking advantage of young Emily. When i realized what the first scene of 'cabin fever' actually was, i thought to my self "there goes another victim of the man from Tallahasse". It just seems like the kind of thing Locke's dad would do.
Anyway, i like the thoughts on certian Losties having parents from the island, but i dont really see it.

[mugatu22]

Hmmm...great thread!

My takes, FWIW...

* Michael is Walt's dad. I have no reason to believe this other than the fact that Walt's mother obviously KNOWS who the father is, and she says its Michael. Why would she lie? And do we have any evidence to the contrary?

Originally Posted by erikau

When meanie Grandma Locke saw Alpert outside the hospital room, she looked disturbed to sew him. I know some will say that it was just the site of a man staring. but Richard Alpert is a sexy beast, was dressed well, and didn't look scary or threatening. Also, when the doctor asked if it was the father, she was obviously uncomfortable and lied. Now, I am NOT saying that I think Alpert is for sure Locke's dad, but Grandma Locke had definitely seen him before. He seemed to be about the right age for Grandma Locke to have said "He's twice your age" to Emily.

* I agree!! After last week's episode, I thought 99% sure that the ageless Alpert is Locke's father...the scene in the hospital sealed it for me. Locke's grandmother says something about the man being "twice" her daughter's age, and then right after the birth, there's Richard Alpert staring into the maternity ward...and the look on Locke's mother's face gives it away to me. He's much older than Locke's mother. Her mother turns around and asks, "Is that him?!" and she stares in terror for a while, and finally says NO because she doesn't want to admit it or have a confrontation. Why else would Locke's mother look at Alpert that way? Was this a random person that terrified Locke's mother, or was there a relationship between the two? It seemed framed that way to imply that Alpert was the one is Locke's father. That's my guess at least.

* I think Locke simply gets conned by the man from Tallahassee.

[Talontbo]

to the Thread..

perhaps all really know is.. all the Special Babies had at least one parent absent..

Emily Locke.. DNA confirms her to be Locke's real mother 99%
Anthony Cooper ... is an obvious match for John Locke's kidney..
Richard and Ben.. both refer to this man as John Locke's Father..

Why would they have John Locke kill One of Their Own????

as for the rest..

Claire's boyfriend..
Michael
Roger Linus

Ben/Roger... based on all the information and Ben's core desire to snuff Daddy personally.. it hard to imagine Roger being anything but Ben's real father..

The same could easily be said for Michael..

Claire boyfriend is a complete question mark... as to who he actually is.. except... Claire was sure the baby was his...

but just using the Anthony Cooper... Emily Locke/DNA... and Richards and Ben's acceptance that this was John Locke's Father...

and Coopers Conman nature... imagining Cooper seducing a 17yr old girl is not out of character in the least...

but the over theme of Missing Parent is strong and compelling...

Benjamin.. son of Jacob.. 12th son, 2nd for Rachel ... (not an Emily) Rachel did die during or directly after giving birth to the biblical Benjamin.. so the parallel is their...

but this also tends to present more questions..

Jack has seen Christian.. and both his parents were there during his life... but he is now off Island..

Rose.. Healed.. on Island as far as we know.. and no history as to early life


and the clincher... Hurley... we know his father.. and his mother.. if we are to assume them to be true and correct.. But.. Hurley's Dad.. did abandoned Hurley...not unlike the former special babies.. and Hurley.. he sees the Cabin..

so I am not sure the native Fathers theme holds... but the Abandoned theme seems to... whether meaning to leave or for reasons beyond the parents control.. (death)..

Richard as John Locke's father... don't see it... and frankly.. I really don't expect to... and here is why..

When Ben returns from taking Locke to see Jacob.. and Richard asks Ben.. Where is Locke.. Ben replies.. "He had an accident"... clearly meant to convey Locke was never coming back... Richard hardly batted an eye... If it was his son.. if it was your son... How would you have reacted???

And we know Ben had every intention of Killing Ben at the mass Grave.. he has admitted it to Hurley...

and even if Richard knew Locke couldn't be killed.. and he most assuredly does.. do you really still believe Richard would have been completely emotionless upon hearing Ben say.. 'He had an accident"....

[Talontbo]

as I was doing a bit of backwatching.. something funny popped into my head.. along these lines..

Losties & Native Fathers...

we still haven't a clue as to WHO.. the Father is to Sara's Baby??? I wonder... she was gifted.... was Jack actually the one to fix her??? will Richard show up in her delivery room??? Locke's future replacement???

Yes.. this does fit the theme... although from a fringe point of view...

[lost_grrl]

Just because the kidney matched doesn't mean that The Man From Tallahassee is John's real father. TMFT clearly had resources to find someone who matched and then figure out who could be "got".

And here is another reason why I don't think that TMFT is John's father...Grandma Locke mentions that Emily's suitor is 2 times her age right? Now this isn't anything concrete, but Kevin Tighe (TMFT) and Swoozy Kurtz (Grown-up Emily) are nearly the exact same age. We saw them both during the same time period and the characters even appear to be the same age--or at least not 16 years apart!

This could be totally misleading because we all know that movies and shows screw around with ages a lot (Angelina Jolie playing Colin Farrell's mom in Alexander...the mere 6 year age difference between Dustin Hoffman and Anne Bancroft in The Graduate), but I see it as a possible indicator that the whole thing--including the claim of paternity--was a con.

Obviously Walt could be striking out at a Dad who left him with the "You're not my father" thing, but it also could be that he in some way senses that he isn't actually Michael's son. Women have lied or made mistakes before about who their baby's Daddy is. Didn't Michael question it? Why would he do that unless there was some reason?

I think that some people may be going a bit overboard with the Biblical references. Some may pan out, but remember that Biblical names are common names, so we can't assume that every person with a Biblical name is following their Bible counterpart's path. That being said, Ben could indeed be the son of Jacob...but then again, there really isn't any evidence of that.

As for Richard Albert's emotion-less reaction to hearing that Ben had harmed John. I think that you answered that yourself, Talontbo--he simply knew that no harm would come to John.

It seems to me that while Ben may have been the temporary "leader on the ground" and that John may soon take up that position, they are not the ultimate authority. Of course, there is the obvious "Jacob", who is really more of a profit. But I think that we will find that Richard Alpert is more than just a rank and file member of the group.

[Talontbo]

hey Lost_grl..

I agree the show has cast actors in such a manner as to attempt to get it right.. but this isn't always the case..

Fact remains..

Emily Locke is a 99% DNA Match.. The P.I. had a file on Locke's Father.. and questioned him with regards to did he really want it.. Emily has been getting money from Cooper for many years... Cooper wanted the best Kidney possible... not available... even if the donor list was long... what better way to get a matching kidney.. get it from family...

It is also more difficult to tell age at more advanced year... 60 versus 77... 17 year difference.. in a woman aged visually faster to a man that as aged visually slower... that is not a real test...

Ben, Richard, P.I. Copper himself, Emily... all confirm Cooper as Locke's father...

but forget this for a moment... lets look at the Native Father's Idea in greater detail..

which OTHER is father to Walt???
Why haven't we seen Aaron's Father in the Others Camp??

If Fathers also must be killed... Why wouldn't Richard be killed.. if he fathered John Locke...???

and Grandma Locke... in the house. says.. "he is twice your age" as if she has seen and met Emily's love interest... and then tell the nurse.. "'I don't know who he is"

seems to me.. if Grandma knew... and then saw that man standing in the hospital.. The nasty Lady.. would have gone after Richard so fast... and yet she didn't...

So I have say... I think it is truly a reach.. wishful thinking to be sure... to much points to it not being so... Richard himself fails to act as if Locke is his son...

but the Abandoned Theme.. this I surely see... and it intrigues me....

[sugarnuts]

Talontbo, great point with the kidney situation. This seems pretty concrete, but its not unreasonable to think it was con. I mean Cooper was a con man right? When you need a kidney, go find a match and then tell this guy/girl your their father and sorry you've never seen me before, but can you have their kidney. sounds like cooper . I would have to say that, after more thinking, i think Alpert is Lockes father. it would be a great twist and be completely plausible. Thats not to say there is no evidence for cooper, Talontbo mention his kidney, and its kind of doubtful that the writers planned Lockes father situation from season 1 (Coopers been around since season 1).
this is a good question, cant wait to see how things develope

[Talontbo]

hey Lost_grl.

consider this a moment before you dig in and defend your theory so whole heartedly..

Richard does not age.
Richard has been off Island multiple times... away from the special effects the island provides... Is Richard really Human???
Richard sees Locke at birth..
Richard shows up 6-7 year later to perform a Reincarnation Test..

If Richard knows Locke is his offspring.. and that Locke is going to someday be the Leader of the Island...

why the Test??? wouldn't Richard already know?? especially if it is his son??? hy would Richard care if Locke picked the wrong item.. especially if Richard knew he was his father... wouldn't a father want his son on the Island???

to may questions... from that angle...
To much evidence already provided discounting the possibility Richard is anyones father let alone Locke's....IMHO.... seen from simply an impartial outside observer..