Jacob & Christian - Page 2

Talontbo · 05-11-2008, 02:15 PM

hey Sugarnuts.

Well all this is assuming the gray ash actually circles the area of course.. and not being there makes that assumption more speculative in nature.. but based on the scenes we have seen at the several direction taken to get to the cabin.. and seeing the ash every time one, I think can safely say it does at this point..

as for a prison.. I am not so sure.. I thought that.. not I don't know if I do.. for the reason I stated above... Jacob.. either Himself.. or the use of any number of manifestations has not once followed up on the "Help Me" statement.. Instead of Christian leading Jack to water, why not just have him tell Jack to break the circle.. or Locke's mom.. or Walt in the rainy jungle.. or Boone in the Sweat Lodge...

So know I am more leaning towards the "Remove thy sandals from thy feet, for the ground you stand upon is Holy Ground" type of thinking.. though this is clearly not where I would like to focus my attention...

This aspect of the show is by far one of the most confusing..

Hurley can and does see the Cabin in the last episode.. and again.. it was night... I also still believe and have posted..

Daniel.. "the light doesn't scatter quite right here"

The cabin... cannot be seen during the day... for whatever reason... even of you have a map to it... Daylight obscures the ability to see it.. and besides, once you are chosen.. all you need do is take a nap... and the message waiting in your mental call box is forwarded in a dream... how convenient... Ben used to have dreams....

lostie newbie · 05-19-2008, 01:28 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong and someone will I'm sure......hence my screen name...LOL! But isn't the use of "ash circles" in something like "spell casting" used to keep out/ward off evil and/or "protection"?

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the ash and saw Locke bend down and feel of it. It was odd though that he just rubbed it between his fingers and didn't question Ben about it.

Just a thought....

lostie newbie · 05-19-2008, 01:29 PM

Speaking of the cabin and Hurley peering in, whose eyeball was that that peeked out through the hole after he saw "Christian"? Was that Charlie by chance?

Talontbo · 05-19-2008, 02:09 PM

hey Lost Newbie..

not to backtrack... but that has been mentioned.. by a lot of us...

the Occult...
not always so much an "Ash Circle" but various circles... blood.. fire.. bones...

Talismans come in all sorts of form.. a Gargoyle.. is in fact used to ward of evil spirits.. though this was not their original intent... circles or rings are believed by some to have magical properties... look up Fairy Rings.... you will see how local legend often perpetuates these myths...

we still do not have the meaning of Ash Circle... perhaps we never will... just another LOST oddity...

as for the EYE... I still do not think its Christians... nor Charlie's... just an Eye used for that episode and for effect... the scare factor.... we may never know that one as well...

Slackosis · 05-22-2008, 12:40 PM

So I dont pretend anything I do, think, say, or type is ever iron-clad or even thought-out beyond so much as a "hey this kinda makes sense...." sort of level. So please bring your own grain of salt to this post but here goes...

I'm buying into the "lost tower"/ groundhog day theory. For the record, 'lost tower' is a way cooler theory name. And I'm also buying into the whooping stick that Ben used in the Sahara--the same thing he handed to Locke to 'hold on to' while he went into the lion's den with keamy--as a key to this. If the screen shot from the pilot is to be believed, then note the baton next to Jack in the very first shot of the very first episode. I wont beat this to death since the whole thing is dicussed on the front page under "The Lost Tower" so go ahead and read that if need be. Important info is that the baton is a key to time travel (somehow...perhaps simply that only the holder of the baton retains knowledge thru the time travel), jack wakes with the baton in the first episode, and we are in something of a time loop. That means the VERY first scene we see is actually the very END of the series and the start of a new one. What we're watching is in fact Jack's first time through the loop but it the last moment is the first of many trips wherein Jack could become as major of a player as Whidmore and Ben. Alright so those are my givens that I'm working under...onto my zany thoughts...

Jack is Jacob. If, within the next two seasons, Jack is to obtain the baton and suddenly become a much bigger player in this whole thing (as he was in the very beginning...) then who's to say he doesn't make erros in his attempts at time travel. When Jacob cries, "Help me" it's jack asking for Locke to help him in a number of ways....Perhaps to get him out of the time loop or alternate time line or WHATEVER that he's stuck in....Perhaps to get their people off the island...or perhaps to save the island itself. Jacob exists in a state of constant flux b/c he is not actually part of the time line there and has just found a way to communicate with that timeline....In order to shape events to his liking...In order to save the island AND his people....That could be Jack/Jacob's two fold mission....Look at who Jacob is most closely associated with...Christian and Claire--Jack's blood relatives. And perhaps Ben was originally the tool jacob/jack used to stop Locke (who seemed to work against saving the losties....) but later Jacob/jack would realize it was necessary to save the island and the people making Locke an absolutely perfect pawn....

Also I'd just like to say that I'm a Ben Linus guy and formerly a John Locke guy. I've never been a huge Jackfan but i do have to remember that in the beginning this was HIS show. He was clearly the alpha male and the show leaned towards him most often. And the writers have said they they've known the ending since the beginning. Perhaps because the end was the beginning. And it all really was Jack's story all along.

Alright, so this is a stretch at best. But what else should I do when I'm bored at work? Let's hear it, kids...

Slackosis · 05-22-2008, 12:40 PM

So I dont pretend anything I do, think, say, or type is ever iron-clad or even thought-out beyond so much as a "hey this kinda makes sense...." sort of level. So please bring your own grain of salt to this post but here goes...

I'm buying into the "lost tower"/ groundhog day theory. For the record, 'lost tower' is a way cooler theory name. And I'm also buying into the whooping stick that Ben used in the Sahara--the same thing he handed to Locke to 'hold on to' while he went into the lion's den with keamy--as a key to this. If the screen shot from the pilot is to be believed, then note the baton next to Jack in the very first shot of the very first episode. I wont beat this to death since the whole thing is dicussed on the front page under "The Lost Tower" so go ahead and read that if need be. Important info is that the baton is a key to time travel (somehow...perhaps simply that only the holder of the baton retains knowledge thru the time travel), jack wakes with the baton in the first episode, and we are in something of a time loop. That means the VERY first scene we see is actually the very END of the series and the start of a new one. What we're watching is in fact Jack's first time through the loop but it the last moment is the first of many trips wherein Jack could become as major of a player as Whidmore and Ben. Alright so those are my givens that I'm working under...onto my zany thoughts...

Jack is Jacob. If, within the next two seasons, Jack is to obtain the baton and suddenly become a much bigger player in this whole thing (as he was in the very beginning...) then who's to say he doesn't make erros in his attempts at time travel. When Jacob cries, "Help me" it's jack asking for Locke to help him in a number of ways....Perhaps to get him out of the time loop or alternate time line or WHATEVER that he's stuck in....Perhaps to get their people off the island...or perhaps to save the island itself. Jacob exists in a state of constant flux b/c he is not actually part of the time line there and has just found a way to communicate with that timeline....In order to shape events to his liking...In order to save the island AND his people....That could be Jack/Jacob's two fold mission....Look at who Jacob is most closely associated with...Christian and Claire--Jack's blood relatives. And perhaps Ben was originally the tool jacob/jack used to stop Locke (who seemed to work against saving the losties....) but later Jacob/jack would realize it was necessary to save the island and the people making Locke an absolutely perfect pawn....

Also I'd just like to say that I'm a Ben Linus guy and formerly a John Locke guy. I've never been a huge Jackfan but i do have to remember that in the beginning this was HIS show. He was clearly the alpha male and the show leaned towards him most often. And the writers have said they they've known the ending since the beginning. Perhaps because the end was the beginning. And it all really was Jack's story all along.

Alright, so this is a stretch at best. But what else should I do when I'm bored at work? Let's hear it, kids...

sugarnuts · 05-22-2008, 02:24 PM

Yo slackosis, i also read that theory on the front page and i strongly agree with it. Im a huge Stephen King fan and have read the dark tower series. Im not sure if i agree with Ben's baton being a key part of time travel.
I have a slightly different version of this in mind though. I think that when Jack wakes up in the jungle it wont be at the end of the series. It will happen much sooner, maybe even in the season finale. We will get to see what he does differently. This is how Jack gets back to the island, he will wake up exactly like he did when he got there. Good point about jack's two closest relatives being in the cabin.
some more interesting thoughts are: jack tattoo says "he walks among us but is not one of us" this could point to him being Jacob. and John Locke woke up the exact same way jack did, he will also be in the same situation.

Oh, and slackosis, im still a Locke man

Francis Lee · 05-25-2008, 04:17 AM

pleeease someone fill me in on some info about jacob, what have the writers/producers said so far?

I can't wait any longer to find out who jacob is, and for ppl even liking the idea of jacob being the island or aaron is something i can't get a grip on, jacob has to somone we havent seen yet and if we have, then damn you got me but still, they introduce jacob at the end of season 3 and now at the end of season 4, still no explanation..he better be in season 5 dammit lol

05-22-2008, 12:40 PM	#15
Slackosis Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3	You want crazy? I'll give you crazy... So I dont pretend anything I do, think, say, or type is ever iron-clad or even thought-out beyond so much as a "hey this kinda makes sense...." sort of level. So please bring your own grain of salt to this post but here goes... I'm buying into the "lost tower"/ groundhog day theory. For the record, 'lost tower' is a way cooler theory name. And I'm also buying into the whooping stick that Ben used in the Sahara--the same thing he handed to Locke to 'hold on to' while he went into the lion's den with keamy--as a key to this. If the screen shot from the pilot is to be believed, then note the baton next to Jack in the very first shot of the very first episode. I wont beat this to death since the whole thing is dicussed on the front page under "The Lost Tower" so go ahead and read that if need be. Important info is that the baton is a key to time travel (somehow...perhaps simply that only the holder of the baton retains knowledge thru the time travel), jack wakes with the baton in the first episode, and we are in something of a time loop. That means the VERY first scene we see is actually the very END of the series and the start of a new one. What we're watching is in fact Jack's first time through the loop but it the last moment is the first of many trips wherein Jack could become as major of a player as Whidmore and Ben. Alright so those are my givens that I'm working under...onto my zany thoughts... Jack is Jacob. If, within the next two seasons, Jack is to obtain the baton and suddenly become a much bigger player in this whole thing (as he was in the very beginning...) then who's to say he doesn't make erros in his attempts at time travel. When Jacob cries, "Help me" it's jack asking for Locke to help him in a number of ways....Perhaps to get him out of the time loop or alternate time line or WHATEVER that he's stuck in....Perhaps to get their people off the island...or perhaps to save the island itself. Jacob exists in a state of constant flux b/c he is not actually part of the time line there and has just found a way to communicate with that timeline....In order to shape events to his liking...In order to save the island AND his people....That could be Jack/Jacob's two fold mission....Look at who Jacob is most closely associated with...Christian and Claire--Jack's blood relatives. And perhaps Ben was originally the tool jacob/jack used to stop Locke (who seemed to work against saving the losties....) but later Jacob/jack would realize it was necessary to save the island and the people making Locke an absolutely perfect pawn.... Also I'd just like to say that I'm a Ben Linus guy and formerly a John Locke guy. I've never been a huge Jackfan but i do have to remember that in the beginning this was HIS show. He was clearly the alpha male and the show leaned towards him most often. And the writers have said they they've known the ending since the beginning. Perhaps because the end was the beginning. And it all really was Jack's story all along. Alright, so this is a stretch at best. But what else should I do when I'm bored at work? Let's hear it, kids...

05-22-2008, 12:40 PM	#16
Slackosis Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3	You want crazy? I'll give you crazy... So I dont pretend anything I do, think, say, or type is ever iron-clad or even thought-out beyond so much as a "hey this kinda makes sense...." sort of level. So please bring your own grain of salt to this post but here goes... I'm buying into the "lost tower"/ groundhog day theory. For the record, 'lost tower' is a way cooler theory name. And I'm also buying into the whooping stick that Ben used in the Sahara--the same thing he handed to Locke to 'hold on to' while he went into the lion's den with keamy--as a key to this. If the screen shot from the pilot is to be believed, then note the baton next to Jack in the very first shot of the very first episode. I wont beat this to death since the whole thing is dicussed on the front page under "The Lost Tower" so go ahead and read that if need be. Important info is that the baton is a key to time travel (somehow...perhaps simply that only the holder of the baton retains knowledge thru the time travel), jack wakes with the baton in the first episode, and we are in something of a time loop. That means the VERY first scene we see is actually the very END of the series and the start of a new one. What we're watching is in fact Jack's first time through the loop but it the last moment is the first of many trips wherein Jack could become as major of a player as Whidmore and Ben. Alright so those are my givens that I'm working under...onto my zany thoughts... Jack is Jacob. If, within the next two seasons, Jack is to obtain the baton and suddenly become a much bigger player in this whole thing (as he was in the very beginning...) then who's to say he doesn't make erros in his attempts at time travel. When Jacob cries, "Help me" it's jack asking for Locke to help him in a number of ways....Perhaps to get him out of the time loop or alternate time line or WHATEVER that he's stuck in....Perhaps to get their people off the island...or perhaps to save the island itself. Jacob exists in a state of constant flux b/c he is not actually part of the time line there and has just found a way to communicate with that timeline....In order to shape events to his liking...In order to save the island AND his people....That could be Jack/Jacob's two fold mission....Look at who Jacob is most closely associated with...Christian and Claire--Jack's blood relatives. And perhaps Ben was originally the tool jacob/jack used to stop Locke (who seemed to work against saving the losties....) but later Jacob/jack would realize it was necessary to save the island and the people making Locke an absolutely perfect pawn.... Also I'd just like to say that I'm a Ben Linus guy and formerly a John Locke guy. I've never been a huge Jackfan but i do have to remember that in the beginning this was HIS show. He was clearly the alpha male and the show leaned towards him most often. And the writers have said they they've known the ending since the beginning. Perhaps because the end was the beginning. And it all really was Jack's story all along. Alright, so this is a stretch at best. But what else should I do when I'm bored at work? Let's hear it, kids...

05-22-2008, 02:24 PM	#17
sugarnuts Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SD Posts: 176	Yo slackosis, i also read that theory on the front page and i strongly agree with it. Im a huge Stephen King fan and have read the dark tower series. Im not sure if i agree with Ben's baton being a key part of time travel. I have a slightly different version of this in mind though. I think that when Jack wakes up in the jungle it wont be at the end of the series. It will happen much sooner, maybe even in the season finale. We will get to see what he does differently. This is how Jack gets back to the island, he will wake up exactly like he did when he got there. Good point about jack's two closest relatives being in the cabin. some more interesting thoughts are: jack tattoo says "he walks among us but is not one of us" this could point to him being Jacob. and John Locke woke up the exact same way jack did, he will also be in the same situation. Oh, and slackosis, im still a Locke man __________________ I Forgot how to count......

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05-11-2008, 02:15 PM	#11
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 508	hey Sugarnuts. Well all this is assuming the gray ash actually circles the area of course.. and not being there makes that assumption more speculative in nature.. but based on the scenes we have seen at the several direction taken to get to the cabin.. and seeing the ash every time one, I think can safely say it does at this point.. as for a prison.. I am not so sure.. I thought that.. not I don't know if I do.. for the reason I stated above... Jacob.. either Himself.. or the use of any number of manifestations has not once followed up on the "Help Me" statement.. Instead of Christian leading Jack to water, why not just have him tell Jack to break the circle.. or Locke's mom.. or Walt in the rainy jungle.. or Boone in the Sweat Lodge... So know I am more leaning towards the "Remove thy sandals from thy feet, for the ground you stand upon is Holy Ground" type of thinking.. though this is clearly not where I would like to focus my attention... This aspect of the show is by far one of the most confusing.. Hurley can and does see the Cabin in the last episode.. and again.. it was night... I also still believe and have posted.. Daniel.. "the light doesn't scatter quite right here" The cabin... cannot be seen during the day... for whatever reason... even of you have a map to it... Daylight obscures the ability to see it.. and besides, once you are chosen.. all you need do is take a nap... and the message waiting in your mental call box is forwarded in a dream... how convenient... Ben used to have dreams....

05-19-2008, 01:28 PM	#12
lostie newbie Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Correct me if I'm wrong and someone will I'm sure......hence my screen name...LOL! But isn't the use of "ash circles" in something like "spell casting" used to keep out/ward off evil and/or "protection"? That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the ash and saw Locke bend down and feel of it. It was odd though that he just rubbed it between his fingers and didn't question Ben about it. Just a thought....

05-19-2008, 01:29 PM	#13
lostie newbie Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Speaking of the cabin and Hurley peering in, whose eyeball was that that peeked out through the hole after he saw "Christian"? Was that Charlie by chance?

05-19-2008, 02:09 PM	#14
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 508	hey Lost Newbie.. not to backtrack... but that has been mentioned.. by a lot of us... the Occult... not always so much an "Ash Circle" but various circles... blood.. fire.. bones... Talismans come in all sorts of form.. a Gargoyle.. is in fact used to ward of evil spirits.. though this was not their original intent... circles or rings are believed by some to have magical properties... look up Fairy Rings.... you will see how local legend often perpetuates these myths... we still do not have the meaning of Ash Circle... perhaps we never will... just another LOST oddity... as for the EYE... I still do not think its Christians... nor Charlie's... just an Eye used for that episode and for effect... the scare factor.... we may never know that one as well...

05-25-2008, 04:17 AM	#18
Francis Lee Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7	pleeease someone fill me in on some info about jacob, what have the writers/producers said so far? I can't wait any longer to find out who jacob is, and for ppl even liking the idea of jacob being the island or aaron is something i can't get a grip on, jacob has to somone we havent seen yet and if we have, then damn you got me but still, they introduce jacob at the end of season 3 and now at the end of season 4, still no explanation..he better be in season 5 dammit lol