Lost: Dalai Lamas, Heroes, Jacob and Evil Claire - Page 2

amdb7 · 05-09-2008, 03:37 PM

A couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned much, but were quite revealing in this episode were: Ben's detailing how someone else decided to purge Dharma, and the validation that Michael can't be killed yet. I think there was an impression that by the time of the purge, Ben had already gone to leader status with the others. Also, I feel there was a lingering question if Ben/Firendly manipulated Michael to working for them, by swapping the gun that Michael bought and tried to kill himself...... And yes, The Claire scene was fantastic!

MugsysMoll · 05-09-2008, 04:56 PM

Moparlarry--Horace's nose started bleeding only when he told Locke he was dead and that Locke had to find him (Horace). I don't think Horace needed a constant, unless this was not the first time he appeared. Locke needed guidance to find the cabin because Ben didn't know where it had gotten to and neither did Hurley. My two favorite scenes of the show both involved Hurley. First was when he was standing at the edge of the open Dharma grave. Ben said with a tired "how many times do I have to confess?" attitude, that Hurley was standing at the exact spot where Locke was when Ben shot him...and Hurley quietly stepped a few inches to the left, away from Ben. The second was when Ben and Hurley were sitting on the tree stump, staring at the cabin, waiting for Locke, and quietly sharing a candy bar. I think that may have been the longest no-dialogue scene in the series. Both actors have excellent comic timing and I laughed at that scene, just waiting to see what they would do. Laurel and Hard

MugsysMoll · 05-09-2008, 04:58 PM

That's Laurel and Hardy I was thinking of. (Have got to learn to finish sentences, with closing punctuation and everything!)

ivalum21 · 05-09-2008, 06:11 PM

Oscar,

When we finally find out that Claire is in fact dead, you need to write an article about how wrong you were

I mean, you are answering your own mystery! "Maybe Jacob can only interact with humans via dead human vessels: hence Christian and others, like Yemi." Didn't Claire seem like she knew just as much as Christian?? Like, maybe Jacob caught her up on everything? Wasn't she acting as aloof and odd as all the other dead people on the island?

Claire is sooooo dead.... And 51% of you are all going to be eating your words.....

mugatu22 · 05-09-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdb7

A couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned much, but were quite revealing in this episode were: Ben's detailing how someone else decided to purge Dharma...

This was made fairly clear IMO when Alpert meets young Ben in the forest, and tells him "You must be very VERY patient" in order to come live w/the natives. This meant to me originally that Alpert set-up the purge, and that Ben's patience paid off because he spent the next 15-25yrs waiting, living w/the Dharma folk, waiting for the purge in the first place.

Long story short, I think it was Alpert's idea for the purge, which is what Ben referenced in last night's episode.

richieice · 05-10-2008, 05:06 AM

The ONLY thing that makes me think Claire is not dead is that Charlie killed himself so that Desmonds vision of Claire getting on a helicopter would come true. If it doesn't come true its a glaring disrespect of the both the shows mythology and its fan base.

Talontbo · 05-10-2008, 07:20 AM

hey Mugatu,

I think that is the impression it was meant to convey.. though I am not so sure Richard did the ordering.. here is why..

Based on what we have seen.. especially of the Special People.. Ben was the first person Date Wise.. that saw a manifestation.. (Mother) this...not long after he arrived on the Island... this event was so overwhelming for Ben and couple with his obvious dislike for being on the Island with Daddy... prompted his search in the Jungle for her..

Now Richard appears... it was then.. Ben reveals why he is in the jungle alone.. He saw his mother... This so takes Richard off guard.. Richard has found a Special Person.. he recognized Ben's ability..

Ben has told us several times now.. He answers to someone else.. Jacob.. and though it appears he is the leader... He has admitted that is not quite correct...

Who or whatever Jacob is... he ordered the Purge..not Ben or Richard...

but why?? ask yourself this..Where did the second drop of food come from?? to this day we haven't an answer... we assume it was dropped... by whom??? Widmore?? why would he provide food for people he know are dead??? Dharma?? same question.. who Off Island would drop food????

and something very telling in "Man behind the curtain" when Locke was at the cabin with Ben.. and about to enter.. Ben warns Locke of Jacobs dislike for technology.. the flash light... it was when Locke turned his on.. that Jacob went into exorcist mode... So... what was Dharma??? one big group of scientist.. digging holes, building stations, screwing up the Electromagnetic specialness.. carving roads... bringing strange animals... laying cables and powerlines.. Jacob had to have loved all this....so much so as to order all this Damagers to their deaths.. for harming the Island..IMO..

Jacob has helped the Losties.. we know this... Christian (speaks for Jacob) led Jack to water...
Jacob asked Locke.. "Help Me"
The Island is actually helping the Losties...and actually it was never the intent of the Others to harm anyone.. though it digressed to that..

so.. not harming the Losties.. actually helping... why??? Locke is there.. he has been monitored from Birth... Hurley can see the cabin... Jack is the son of Christian as is Claire an offspring along with Aaron...

When Hurley say to Ben... this is where you shot and left Locke for dead... Ben says.. I should have known better... he wasn't thinking quite right.. so when he sees Locke later he is totally floored... momentarily.. but comes to accept... He's Out.. Locke is In... and yet.. Ben, so loves this Island..and his life.. that I really think he is willing to help Locke...for no other reason.. The Island..

joerj11 · 05-10-2008, 09:55 PM

Good episode. I always love learning more about Locke. He is one fascinating guy, that's for sure. I'm growing tired of the boat scenes though. Get on with it already.

80sPro · 05-11-2008, 01:44 PM

richliece - you and I are on the same page. On one hand I have a bad feeling. On the other, the prophecy of Claire raising Aaron herself just HAS TO come true! My problem with this is that we want it so badly.....that makes us emotionally attached. Which is the point. So if she's dead we'll be united - those of you who think she's already dead with those of us who can't believe it. And that will give us lots to talk about during the hiatus.

Lissbirds · 05-11-2008, 09:18 PM

I think as a kid, Locke choose "poorly" on purpose. He knew the knife wasn't the right item. I think he was hesitant to accept the quest and become someone important--he just wanted to deny his destiny for a while. (Hence the scene when he was in high school, where his coach(?) tells him in so many words that he can't escape his destiny.)

He's a bit of a reluctant hero. (Part of that old Campbell's Hero's Journey--Call to Action--right?--which is usually rejected at first, until the Hero decides to commit to his goal. I'm a story structure buff, and I'm loving this, too.

Nice insights!

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05-09-2008, 03:37 PM	#11
amdb7 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 11	A couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned much, but were quite revealing in this episode were: Ben's detailing how someone else decided to purge Dharma, and the validation that Michael can't be killed yet. I think there was an impression that by the time of the purge, Ben had already gone to leader status with the others. Also, I feel there was a lingering question if Ben/Firendly manipulated Michael to working for them, by swapping the gun that Michael bought and tried to kill himself...... And yes, The Claire scene was fantastic!

05-09-2008, 04:56 PM	#12
MugsysMoll Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4	Moparlarry--Horace's nose started bleeding only when he told Locke he was dead and that Locke had to find him (Horace). I don't think Horace needed a constant, unless this was not the first time he appeared. Locke needed guidance to find the cabin because Ben didn't know where it had gotten to and neither did Hurley. My two favorite scenes of the show both involved Hurley. First was when he was standing at the edge of the open Dharma grave. Ben said with a tired "how many times do I have to confess?" attitude, that Hurley was standing at the exact spot where Locke was when Ben shot him...and Hurley quietly stepped a few inches to the left, away from Ben. The second was when Ben and Hurley were sitting on the tree stump, staring at the cabin, waiting for Locke, and quietly sharing a candy bar. I think that may have been the longest no-dialogue scene in the series. Both actors have excellent comic timing and I laughed at that scene, just waiting to see what they would do. Laurel and Hard

05-09-2008, 04:58 PM	#13
MugsysMoll Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4	That's Laurel and Hardy I was thinking of. (Have got to learn to finish sentences, with closing punctuation and everything!)

05-09-2008, 06:11 PM	#14
ivalum21 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4	Oscar, When we finally find out that Claire is in fact dead, you need to write an article about how wrong you were I mean, you are answering your own mystery! "Maybe Jacob can only interact with humans via dead human vessels: hence Christian and others, like Yemi." Didn't Claire seem like she knew just as much as Christian?? Like, maybe Jacob caught her up on everything? Wasn't she acting as aloof and odd as all the other dead people on the island? Claire is sooooo dead.... And 51% of you are all going to be eating your words.....

05-10-2008, 05:06 AM	#16
richieice Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 193	The ONLY thing that makes me think Claire is not dead is that Charlie killed himself so that Desmonds vision of Claire getting on a helicopter would come true. If it doesn't come true its a glaring disrespect of the both the shows mythology and its fan base.

05-10-2008, 07:20 AM	#17
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 508	hey Mugatu, I think that is the impression it was meant to convey.. though I am not so sure Richard did the ordering.. here is why.. Based on what we have seen.. especially of the Special People.. Ben was the first person Date Wise.. that saw a manifestation.. (Mother) this...not long after he arrived on the Island... this event was so overwhelming for Ben and couple with his obvious dislike for being on the Island with Daddy... prompted his search in the Jungle for her.. Now Richard appears... it was then.. Ben reveals why he is in the jungle alone.. He saw his mother... This so takes Richard off guard.. Richard has found a Special Person.. he recognized Ben's ability.. Ben has told us several times now.. He answers to someone else.. Jacob.. and though it appears he is the leader... He has admitted that is not quite correct... Who or whatever Jacob is... he ordered the Purge..not Ben or Richard... but why?? ask yourself this..Where did the second drop of food come from?? to this day we haven't an answer... we assume it was dropped... by whom??? Widmore?? why would he provide food for people he know are dead??? Dharma?? same question.. who Off Island would drop food???? and something very telling in "Man behind the curtain" when Locke was at the cabin with Ben.. and about to enter.. Ben warns Locke of Jacobs dislike for technology.. the flash light... it was when Locke turned his on.. that Jacob went into exorcist mode... So... what was Dharma??? one big group of scientist.. digging holes, building stations, screwing up the Electromagnetic specialness.. carving roads... bringing strange animals... laying cables and powerlines.. Jacob had to have loved all this....so much so as to order all this Damagers to their deaths.. for harming the Island..IMO.. Jacob has helped the Losties.. we know this... Christian (speaks for Jacob) led Jack to water... Jacob asked Locke.. "Help Me" The Island is actually helping the Losties...and actually it was never the intent of the Others to harm anyone.. though it digressed to that.. so.. not harming the Losties.. actually helping... why??? Locke is there.. he has been monitored from Birth... Hurley can see the cabin... Jack is the son of Christian as is Claire an offspring along with Aaron... When Hurley say to Ben... this is where you shot and left Locke for dead... Ben says.. I should have known better... he wasn't thinking quite right.. so when he sees Locke later he is totally floored... momentarily.. but comes to accept... He's Out.. Locke is In... and yet.. Ben, so loves this Island..and his life.. that I really think he is willing to help Locke...for no other reason.. The Island..

05-10-2008, 09:55 PM	#18
joerj11 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29	Good episode. I always love learning more about Locke. He is one fascinating guy, that's for sure. I'm growing tired of the boat scenes though. Get on with it already.

05-11-2008, 01:44 PM	#19
80sPro Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 247	richliece - you and I are on the same page. On one hand I have a bad feeling. On the other, the prophecy of Claire raising Aaron herself just HAS TO come true! My problem with this is that we want it so badly.....that makes us emotionally attached. Which is the point. So if she's dead we'll be united - those of you who think she's already dead with those of us who can't believe it. And that will give us lots to talk about during the hiatus.

05-11-2008, 09:18 PM	#20
Lissbirds Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8	I think as a kid, Locke choose "poorly" on purpose. He knew the knife wasn't the right item. I think he was hesitant to accept the quest and become someone important--he just wanted to deny his destiny for a while. (Hence the scene when he was in high school, where his coach(?) tells him in so many words that he can't escape his destiny.) He's a bit of a reluctant hero. (Part of that old Campbell's Hero's Journey--Call to Action--right?--which is usually rejected at first, until the Hero decides to commit to his goal. I'm a story structure buff, and I'm loving this, too. Nice insights!