Tom getting off the island

[graciejazz2]

Originally Posted by clueless1der

my brain just exploded



*pffft.*

haha, my thoughts exactly!

[Talontbo]

beyond creative.. not sure what dimension.. but its there... By its self????


LMAO... I am to funny... I crack myself up.....


what extinction???? HUMAN??? LOST.... never to be found.... LOL... I need a drink...

[lost_grrl]

Originally Posted by tailhook

Of course.. all this discussion is grounded in linear time 3-dimensional travel thinking.

Lets assume there is a device.. island technology.. or even that Jacob has the ability... to displace objects to any point in 4 dimensional space of the known space-time continuum(everything that isn't part of the island). Actions are governed by The Island and should someone attempt to change history and/or cause a paradox they will be prevented from doing so.

Knowing this.. Tommy Boy gets tasked with bringing Michael back into the fold. He gets displaced to New York and sets Michael straight. Now.. to illustrate the power of getting displaced he parties for the next 6 months. At the end he gets instructed to come back to the island and gets displaced... to 1 minute after he actually left. He has aged 6 months physically but only 1 minute relatively. Now we encounter him on up through his death and since he never leaves the island he never meets up with himself partying in New York. For him the time is linear but in reality there are 2 different versions of him.. one on the island.. and one in the 4 dimensional space-time continuum.

Ramifications... if its true that the island freezes your aging(especially if it exists outside of the space-time continuum).. as denoted by Richard Alpert.. then Ben has to have spent a good deal of time off the island while it appears he was there all along. As long as the excursions weren't too long.. and he mixed it up with extended island stays.. it would just appear that he aged faster then other kids. Figure a 1-year trip in 4-space with a 1-minute gap in Island Time followed by a 6-month Island stay through adolescence followed by shorter stays in adulthood. It would certainly explain why Benji looks like a 55 year old.. when in 4-space time he would be in his early 40's.

Its also why Miles believes that Ben can get the money he wants. Hmm

HAHA... I just figured out given my main theory why Miles wants exactly $3.2 million. Its really the only thing it could possibly be. I now also understand why Ben is having Sayid kill people.

Always wanted to do this.. GOING TO BED! NIGHT! MUWAHAH.

(and yes i'm serious about knowing)

-TH
a) $3.2 million dollars is the cost to the individual by Whitmore's crew to buy your way to the island and be allowed to survive the extinction. Not that you aren't going to have to pass other tests to go, like say doing missions for them, but assuming you do you'd better have $3.2 million to pony up when the time comes. This is why he is willing to lie about finding Ben. The only thing Miles truly cares about is surviving the extinction.

b) Since $3.2 million dollars won't mean anything after the extinction its mainly to help with the overall cost of actually transporting and moving people and material to the island. Facilities have to be built.. boats have to be bought or built... people have to be paid off not to keep a log if a set of big ass ships happens to leave.

The reason why the Economist is so important is not really because he manages just the money.. but he also manages who goes, how many go, the resources they need to support their people that go. Take too many and the island can't support you. Take too few and you leave population on the table.

The first part of my theory was that Whitmore gets a foothold on the island and expels the Oceanic 6 at the end of the season. What Ben is trying to do back in the Real World is kill the main people responsible in the Whitmore organization for organizing the exodus in order to prolong it long enough to take the island back.. with Sayid as the primary assassin.

Assuming these 'powers' are reality... its also why it was critical that Charlotte and Daniel had to shut down The Tempest and their mission was to find Ben Linus. If they didn't... at any point between now and extinction Ben could slip back onto the island.. activate the gas killing everyone who had since setup shop in preperation for the extinction and kill everyone on the island while taking the island back with little trouble. It was his 'failsafe' for if everything went wrong.

Nice! I really like it and it makes good sense--at least for now.

Here is my question, and it seems trivial, but...Tom dies on the island on whatever day that is and his partying self goes on in NYC for another 6 months. Does NYC Tom just go "poof"? Or are there now 2 dead Toms--one on the island and one in NYC? We know that someone somehow has come up with 300+ dead bodies without anyone noticing (assuming that Thai grave thing was a hoax)? This could really help!

[tailhook]

Originally Posted by Talontbo

beyond creative.. not sure what dimension.. but its there... By its self????


LMAO... I am to funny... I crack myself up.....


what extinction???? HUMAN??? LOST.... never to be found.... LOL... I need a drink...

The earth is going to be a big ball of ice in my theory within 10 years. Pretty much 99% of all species will die. Its one of the reasons they were doing experiments with bringing animals to the island. One might also wonder if humans can't have babies whether animals can. Locke did quite a bit of boar hunting and they didn't seem to go away. Supplying the people who live there with food would almost certainly be a pretty big undertaking.

-TH

[tailhook]

[quote=lost_grrl;1167952]Nice! I really like it and it makes good sense--at least for now.

Here is my question, and it seems trivial, but...Tom dies on the island on whatever day that is and his partying self goes on in NYC for another 6 months. Does NYC Tom just go "poof"?

No. Its a linear progression for Tom.

Lives on island -> travels to new york -> parties for 6 months -> returns to the island a minute after he left -> continues living on the island -> dies.

It would be no different if he returned to the island 6 months after he left

Lives on island -> travels to new york -> parties for 6 months -> travels back to the island -> continues living on the island -> dies.

The only major thing is to avoid meeting yourself. The island would need to enforce that he could not travel to any time during a time period he has previously travelled to.

Lives on island -> travels to new york -> parties for 6 months -> returns to the island a minute after he left -> travels to New York 3 months into his previous 6 months stay -> meets himself and causes a paradox. That 6 months he was there before should be offlimits to him. I'm sure the island would be very involved in preventing a paradox via course correction. Its allready been shown it can keep people from dying. Preventing them from going off the reservation should be relatively easy.

Originally Posted by lost_grrl

Or are there now 2 dead Toms--one on the island and one in NYC?

Just one. Whats is the future to us is the past to him. By the time he dies on the island he had allready returned from NY.

-TH

[erikau]

Wow, that's all very good. I like the displacement thing, it could even explain Charlie in flashforwards. Perhaps the way he died, sacrificing himself for the greater good of his friends, pleased the Island or Jacob (whichever controls it) and so they displaced him back to the real world as a reward. As Charlie says, "I'm dead, but I'm here." I don't think he is a figment of Hurley's imagination or craziness, nor some manifestation of the Island or Smokey. I think it was actually him (Hurley touches him), displaced because the Island needs him to go bug Hurley about getting back.

I like the whole idea about the Island being the last safe place and he money being for that. My only question would then be: who is Abaddon? What is his role?

We know that he is connected with Widmore, because he recruited the freighter team. He was also the one who adamantly told Naomi "There were no survivors of Flight 815," which I now understand to be his way of telling her to kill them all. If this alone were his role in the show, it could be easy to say that that's all he is: a recruiter, the one who chooses who gets to go, and perhaps a close associate of Widmore if he is the one giving orders like that.

But then why does he visit Hurley in Santa Rosa? Why does he seem so unaware of what has happened with the mission, if he was involved with it? He asks Hurley if they are still alive, and whether he is talking about the 815ers or the Freighties...well does it matter? Either suggests that Abaddon, so probably Widmore, has for some reason lost all contact with the mission and has no idea what is going on. If we can at least say me understand his motives: to destroy the survivors of 815 (the Chosen ones to be on the Island?), and perhaps replace them with Widmore's crew of talented folks with 3.2 million. So why does he need to ask Hurley what is going on?

[Hot4Sayid]

Wow, I'm impressed. It does make sense.

[Pitchy]

The only problem I see with TH's space time continuum displacement via Jacob powers or island device would be the whole course correcting of the universe. If Michael was meant to die by suicide on said night, but Tom interferes, by the Jewelery store lady's logic, the universe would set events in motion constantly to have him die another way.

Even if Tom had Desmond like abilities, I don't think he can keep up with all the future events and make the necessary changes to save Michael until they are done with him. That would be far too time consuming for him to do with his limited time off island.

Other than, it makes perfect sense.

Knowing what we know now about Tom, it would be hilarious to see what he would pull out of the magic box. Somewhere in the jungle, there is a gay dance club with disco lights, chest waxed Latino strippers who lets Tom lick salsa off their nipples... They probably banned Tom from using the magic box after all that

[tailhook]

Originally Posted by Pitchy

The only problem I see with TH's space time continuum displacement via Jacob powers or island device would be the whole course correcting of the universe. If Michael was meant to die by suicide on said night, but Tom interferes,

You are assuming he would be able to interfere. The course correction can happen at the point he looks to interfere and he gets prevented from interfering just as Michael was prevented from finding a way of killing himself. So yes per the Jewelry's store lady's logic if Michael was meant to die.. and something prevented him from dying... he would constantly be slated to die another way.. that was established with Charlie. But if it wasn't his time to die and say Tom tried to kill him... Tom would constantly be prevented from doing so.

-TH

[Talontbo]

please correct me if I am understanding this incorrectly..

Charlie was supposed to Die... If Desmond... stopped it from happening then Charlie would be assigned a new Death date so to speak... But... nothing would have prevented Desmond from doing the deed himself... Although we know Desmond wouldn't do that..LOL...

So... based on this... if Mike was not supposed to die.. nothing would allow it to happen... until such time, as it was his time... then if his demise was prevented... he would then be assigned a new death Date...

This is a cosmic control mechanism..???? how does that put the onus on the Island???

what cosmic wonderling is there, that can direct all happenings in the universe??