Number 6 is Aaron - The Final Word

[mugatu22]

Originally Posted by Canesrule

But why is Jack one of the 6? That's the real question....

Because he's the leader of the losties and he wants to get off that island more than anything. Seems to me that he's gonna make sure he gets outta there no matter what, even if it means ignoring all of the signs that the "rescue" party isn't there to rescue them. So far the show has (IMO) portrayed Jack as being unreasonable, blind to some of the signs that things are going wrong, and stubborn in his conviction to "lead everyone to safety." That he's one of the 6 makes sense to me b/c I think at this point he'd make a deal w/the devil to get outta there...and then regret it after the fact.

[Talontbo]

hey Canes.

very funny... LMAO.. Justice League... X-Men... still laughing..

But please note.. not once have I elevated even a single person to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle status...

but in all seriousness,,, you did not answer the question. i understand your adamant desire to have Aaron one of the fantastic 6.. however.. please provide a reason... and please consider..

Sayid... off Island events shown
Jack... off Island events shown
Kate... off Island events shown
Hurley... off Island events shown
Sun... off Island events shown

What benefit to the writers does having Aaron be an Oceanic 6 provide?

I will not give you a direct answer.. you need to think on it.. I will say this..

Do you even watch this show???

The end of episode previews points to Hurley holding Aaron... This easily explains that Aaron and Claire get separated... Then the previews intimate at All Hell Breaking Loose... this provides the way for Hurley to head back to the beach with Aaron... and already we have,,

on the beach... Jack, Sun and Kate... Sayid is on the boat... and the Chopper is gone??? where is it??? hmmmm dropping off bad guys to toast Karl and Rousseau ???

Either way... Aaron, last we saw... was with Hurley..

now... throughout the show.. the writers have spun a rather unique and complicated web of interactions and subtle crossovers... they have also relied on a blend of truth and fiction to account for a hidden Island... and though its tenuous at best... its TV... I can accept their creativity...even with the inherent flaws....

So.. back to the beach... we have not been provided the dynamics on the beach that we were given for the barracks area... could it be??? a similar type situation??? pandemonium??? confusion??? or chaos??? Such is what we have to speculate on??? but could this be the reason only 6 get rescued??

RESCUED!!!! whereas, Ben's band of Extremists... are hiding at the Temple... and apparently need little or no help getting off the Island.. even after the Sub is blown up and the underwater beacon is rendered inoperable...how sweet is that??? Thus, Ben off Island directing Sayid is not a factor...and seeing Flashy Future Stories with Ben and anyone one else from his side of town can easily be written...

so again I ask.... What benefit is having Aaron as a Survivor to the Writers??

I will leave you that to ponder.....

[Canesrule]

Originally Posted by Talontbo

hey Canes.

very funny... LMAO.. Justice League... X-Men... still laughing..

But please note.. not once have I elevated even a single person to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle status...

but in all seriousness,,, you did not answer the question. i understand your adamant desire to have Aaron one of the fantastic 6.. however.. please provide a reason... and please consider..

Sayid... off Island events shown
Jack... off Island events shown
Kate... off Island events shown
Hurley... off Island events shown
Sun... off Island events shown

What benefit to the writers does having Aaron be an Oceanic 6 provide?

I will not give you a direct answer.. you need to think on it.. I will say this..

Do you even watch this show???

so again I ask.... What benefit is having Aaron as a Survivor to the Writers??

I will leave you that to ponder.....

As I explained. I don't have a adamant desire to have Aaron as one of the six. He's helpless on the island. Same as Sun and Hurley. They should and would be rescued first. Women and children first. It's realistic. It happens all the time. Are you going to rescue Sawyer before an infant Aaron? Jin before a pregnant Sun?

You seem to ask what benefit do the writers have for Aaron being one of the six? Well, the biggest benefit is since 95% of the show takes place on the island, they don't have Claire and an infant to worry about anymore. The Losties are now more mobile to fight Widmore and the Others. This means more screen time for everyone's favorites. See, I don't see Aaron as having any other purpose except being an infant in a hostile environment. And if there was a chance to get people out of a hostile environment, I'm pretty sure in any instance infants and children would be rescued first. Both the rescuers and adults in the hostile environment would see to it that the baby gets out first. That's reality. If there's a baby in a burning building, you think they're rescuing the hottest chicks or the handsome guys first? What world do you live in?

You again claim that off island, what can the writers do with Aaron. Well what can the writers do with Sun? What have we seen? A woman giving birth? WOW!! And what are they going to do with her now? Breastfeeding? CHanging diapers? Woooooo, compelling drama that will surely explain the island and is key to Ben's plans against the Widmores! If they decide to go back do you think she's going with her newborn hence becoming the new Claire and Aaron having to be saved all the time? Or do you think she's going the Sayid route and killing people for Ben while the baby takes a nap?

What about Hurley? What mindblowing event have we seen other then him talking to Charlie in a mental hospital? Think the ghost of Charlie is going to bestow upon him mystical powers from beyond that will enable him to fight evil? If he decides to return to the island, what's he going to do that he hasn't done there already? Eat? Play ping pong? Play horseshoes with Sawyer?

Half of the six are useless on or off the island. Their stories been told. the only person off the island that has done anything like people here hope for is Sayid. He's the only one whose taken the island fight back home. Jack has done nothing but be a pillpopping alcoholic crying about the mistake he made for leaving. Kate's happy taking care of Aaron and living a normal life with no intentions of going back.

Yeah, I watch the show. Show me specifically what I'm missing where the strongest on the island wouldn't make sure the weakest on the island get to safety because that's been the M.O. for the whole show so far.

[Canesrule]

Originally Posted by mugatu22

Because he's the leader of the losties and he wants to get off that island more than anything. Seems to me that he's gonna make sure he gets outta there no matter what, even if it means ignoring all of the signs that the "rescue" party isn't there to rescue them. So far the show has (IMO) portrayed Jack as being unreasonable, blind to some of the signs that things are going wrong, and stubborn in his conviction to "lead everyone to safety." That he's one of the 6 makes sense to me b/c I think at this point he'd make a deal w/the devil to get outta there...and then regret it after the fact.

You're contradicting yourself. You say he's the leader yet he'd make a deal with the devil to get off the island.

I don't know what the circumstances are but a real leader would say "Get Aaron and Sun out of here. I still have 30 something Losties left that need my help and leadership. I'm not leaving til we ALL get rescued". It seems Jack turned tail and ran when it got too heavy which hasn't been his character. His desire to go back implies that Losties are still on the island. Why would he want to go back to an island where everyone is dead?

So Jack, not Aaron, being one of the six makes little sense until we saw what actually went down.

[Talontbo]

hey Cane..

so much of what you said is just BS.... Sun is the daughter of a very powerful Korean Business man... her future story is wide open... we already know she is at some odds with daddy.. but this does not exclude her future involvement on levels we have not seen yet.. Possibly as Ben's tool in Korea...

As for Hurley... Charlie or not... it has been provided... Hurley understands they need to get back... Jack understands this... and Kate is saddle for 10yrs...in CA... or so it would seem... and lets us not forget... Hurley is a multi-millionaire.. and this alone could open many doors for the writers...

Aaron??? a worthless #6 if you ask me... as a stand alone character... but, he is a child born on the island... what gift could that provide???

as for women and children first... you fail to look beyond the reasonable... this is not a sinking ship or burning building... and I live on the same world you do... the difference.. I understand its a fiction story... not real... that said....

is it not reasonable to Hypothesize.... The possibility, to whatever extent, the Island is now under siege... that in the moments leading up to and during the attempted capturing of Ben Linus.. that some Losties get killed.. others scatter...leaving only a small group.... Jack, Hurley, Aaron, Kate and Sun.. to be rescued and brought to the Freighter with Sayid..... as for Juliette or any other person not an actual 815 survivor... they would not be included on the 6 anyway... but could easily be off island... perhaps Aaron story isn't even needed... as i suspect... but its the tie in to Claire and her demise or misfortune of having been separated from Aaron just before all hell breaks loose... Just because the Strongest want to provided rescue for the weakest (women & children) does not make is always possible... no more so then getting trampled to death while trying to escape a burning night club.... chivalry is still alive.. I personally agree, women and children first... but.. sometimes it is just not in the cards.... sadly..

So... your assertion that half the oceanic 6 are story worthless off Island is IMO not a fair analysis...

the writers imagination is the only limit on what stories can and cannot be told... your/our perceptions of a particular characters off island worth may be less than what the writers assign their worth...

I for one will continue to explore my imagination.. and try to anticipate all possible outcomes... thats the fun I receive from Lost... its the second guessing... and third guessing.. brain treats all around..... smiles..

[erikau]

Originally Posted by Canesrule

But why is Jack one of the 6? That's the real question....

This is just my opinion...

Because it finally needs to become perfectly clear that Jack NEVER WAS and NEVER WILL BE the hero. His life before island, on island, and now after island will all show that Jack tries to do the right thing, tries to fix things, but usually just ends up MESSING EVERYTHING UP because he is too selfrighteous and egotistical to trust anyone but himself. He always thinks he right, so he will always do what he feels needs to be done. Mark my words: Jack WILL BE the guilty party when it comes time to leave the Island, although exactly how is still up in the air.

Personally, and I don't think is it the big reveal of he show more than a theme or nuance, but I think from the very beginning the producer's have been performing a little psych experiment of their own: present a TV show with however many central characters. Show their backgrounds, histories, traumas, triumphs, motivations, and then drop them off on an Island. See who the audience decides the heroes are. We chose:

Jack: A whiny, control freak with a god complex and later, a drinking/drug problem.

Kate: A completely self-absorbed killer. Will sell out people she cares about for her own good.

Now, WHY were these our heroes? Because despite what we knew or learned to be negative character traits, these guys are attractive and kick some ass. The more we learn about our heroes though, the more unlikeable they become to me. Conversely, people originally thought of as not-so-good, like Sawyer and Ben even, are becoming more human and more likely the heroes in the end, to me. Basically, I think Jack needed to go because it was his mistaken idea that they needed to leave in the first place, and after leaving his true loser self is revealed.

[Canesrule]

Originally Posted by Talontbo

hey Cane..

so much of what you said is just BS.... Sun is the daughter of a very powerful Korean Business man... her future story is wide open... we already know she is at some odds with daddy.. but this does not exclude her future involvement on levels we have not seen yet.. Possibly as Ben's tool in Korea...

She has a newborn baby to take care of. You really think she's going to be a tool for Ben? Apart from asking her dad for help rescuing the others from the island, she's going to be pretty occupied. Babies are hard work. 24/7. Especially newborns.

As for Hurley... Charlie or not... it has been provided... Hurley understands they need to get back... Jack understands this... and Kate is saddle for 10yrs...in CA... or so it would seem... and lets us not forget... Hurley is a multi-millionaire.. and this alone could open many doors for the writers...

When we saw him what was he doing when he saw Charlie leading up to the police chase. Buying a slurpee. That tells me pre-Charlie he wasn't mounting much of an offensive to get back to the island. Where's his story going to go?

Aaron??? a worthless #6 if you ask me... as a stand alone character... but, he is a child born on the island... what gift could that provide???

Again, you're in Justice League mode. Why do the Oceanic Six have to do anything? Answer that because you and others have failed to. Why can't they just be the six who were rescued? Why do they have to save the day? They're not superheroes. They didn't name themselves the Oceanic Six before leaving the island. They didn't have a grand scheme when they left the island. They're just six people who were rescued and given a name by the media.

And what makes an infant worthless? That's the logic I don't get. How's an infant worthless and not deserving to be rescued? You expect friggin laser beams to come out of his eyes? What is it that you want from Aaron?

as for women and children first... you fail to look beyond the reasonable... this is not a sinking ship or burning building... and I live on the same world you do... the difference.. I understand its a fiction story... not real... that said....

This is an island with polar bears, a smoke monster, crazy inhabitants and an outside menace armed to the teeth. If there was chance to get off the island, wouldn't they send Claire, Aaron and Sun first. Fiction or otherwise. They wouldn't decide who can best help them off the island. They'd want to get them to safety first. It's what they've been doing for three seasons now.

is it not reasonable to Hypothesize.... The possibility, to whatever extent, the Island is now under siege... that in the moments leading up to and during the attempted capturing of Ben Linus.. that some Losties get killed.. others scatter...leaving only a small group.... Jack, Hurley, Aaron, Kate and Sun.. to be rescued and brought to the Freighter with Sayid..... as for Juliette or any other person not an actual 815 survivor... they would not be included on the 6 anyway... but could easily be off island...

That's exactly how I think it happens. We know the helicopter can hold so much people so they sent Aaron, Sun, Kate (to take care of Aaron) and Hurley(a non fighter). Logical. Makes sense.

perhaps Aaron story isn't even needed... as i suspect... but its the tie in to Claire and her demise or misfortune of having been separated from Aaron just before all hell breaks loose...

What was Aaron's major story on the island other than being Claire's baby? So why do you expect a major story off island? He's a friggin baby....

Just because the Strongest want to provided rescue for the weakest (women & children) does not make is always possible... no more so then getting trampled to death while trying to escape a burning night club.... chivalry is still alive.. I personally agree, women and children first... but.. sometimes it is just not in the cards.... sadly..

True but obviously, they managed to get the infant and pregnant lady off so what's the argument about again?

So... your assertion that half the oceanic 6 are story worthless off Island is IMO not a fair analysis...

the writers imagination is the only limit on what stories can and cannot be told... your/our perceptions of a particular characters off island worth may be less than what the writers assign their worth...

I for one will continue to explore my imagination.. and try to anticipate all possible outcomes... thats the fun I receive from Lost... its the second guessing... and third guessing.. brain treats all around..... smiles..

My point is must everything be mystical? Can't some things play out like they would in reality?

And as you say if the writer's imagination is the only limit and you continue to explore your own, than maybe just maybe the writers have something superfantastic planned for Aaron but because you and the others hate a baby, you can't see it and won't even explore it. But again you and others won't entertain that possibility because you all feel Aaron's worthless. So then aren't you more guilty of prejudging the writer's intentions and plans than me by discounting their choice before they do anything with him? See I'm content if his story goes nowhere. You guys think he's worthless before giving the writer's a chance to finish the story. It reeks of hypocrisy.

Me personally, I see Aaron as just a baby that needed to get off a highly dangerous island and he did and I'm happy for him. I was ecstatic when I saw him at the end of Kate's episode but then I come here and get angry rants from you babykillers. I didn't want him killed in the crossfire, torn apart by Smokey, starved to death or eaten by a boar or polar bear. I'm happy he lived and is safe. Sorry if that isn't a special enough reason for you people.

[Talontbo]

hey Canes,

again.. you make me laugh... Consumed by wild boar and polar bear...??? LMAO.. torn to shreds in a hail of bullets... Smokey tree thumps... starved.. LMAO...

Of course I wanted non of this to happen to Aaron.. don't be ridiculous.. I have wanted someone, anyone.. to go to the crib.. find Charlie's DS ring and make sure Claire and Aaron get it... it was so important to Charlie... and he left it for Aaron..
As for your other assertions.. again.. not true.. That I have chosen to second guess the writers is perfectly normal.. and but one of the things this forum promotes... so please do not lump me in with the babykillers... LOL....

Sun currently has an infant.. and , because she is the daughter of a very wealthy man.. assuredly can afford a nanny.. her freedom from typical motherhood is assured...

Hurley is a trail blazer.. just look at that pile of fruit he destroyed.. and the man on the beach he ran over. X-man??? not quite... but not afraid to step up and be counted..

"Can't some thing just play out as they would in reality?"

Of course THEY CAN... question is will they???? this you need to ask the writers... while your at it... ask them how the island could be invisible??? in reality????

Its fiction... not real... this is what allows for the mystical as you put it... and is one of the factors that must be accounted for in any and all discussions of this show...

In a perfect word... 20 mins. after the plane crash... they would have been located and rescued... this is not a high mountain peak in the Andes... or dense jungle in Central America... this is a tropical Island... that is INVISIBLE!!!! for lack of a better term... not necessarily a burden to access... unless.. YOU CAN'T SEE IT!!!

No Canes.... Imagination is Key... the writers have an abundance... and I will continue to dream up new things that could be... and hopefully i will be right.. although I suspect i will be wrong...

right now... I have the bad guys as..

Evil Penny and Daddy....

and they are going to attempt the kidnapping of Aaron... who is the heir to the Jacob Throne... (old wooden chair in the dilapidated cabin)...

Because he is Christain Shepards grandson.. yes... that sounds about right... LMAO

[Canesrule]

Originally Posted by Talontbo

hey Canes,

No Canes.... Imagination is Key... the writers have an abundance... and I will continue to dream up new things that could be... and hopefully i will be right.. although I suspect i will be wrong...

right now... I have the bad guys as..

Evil Penny and Daddy....

and they are going to attempt the kidnapping of Aaron... who is the heir to the Jacob Throne... (old wooden chair in the dilapidated cabin)...

Because he is Christain Shepards grandson.. yes... that sounds about right... LMAO

There you go! See Aaron's not worthless. That'd be a cool off island plot if Aaron was Jacob's successor and Ben and Widmore were out to see who gets him first with Kate on the run again protecting him from both sides.

But if nothing cool like that ever happens with his character, I'm perfectly happy he got off. I'm absolutely content if the Aaron arc of Lost is over and he goes on to lead a normal life. Can't one person on the show have a happy ending? No. People want dhingos to eat him.

Let Sayid and Jack worry about the island. I would have liked him and Claire to get off but you can't always get what you want.

[mugatu22]

Originally Posted by Canesrule

You're contradicting yourself. You say he's the leader yet he'd make a deal with the devil to get off the island.

As has already been said above, IMO it's not a contradiction at all...Jack is the "leader" of the movement to *get off the island.* Jack's character has been developed carefully to show him as an unlikely leader---his own father has told him he's not a leader---and the regret shown in the S3 finale to me demonstrates that he regrets leaving.

Jack isn't a true leader. Yes as you said a "true" leader would stay and make sure everyone is taken care of. Be careful applying general definitions to Jack of leadership, b/c in my opinion he's only a "leader" on the island because it was appointed to him and he knows if he doesn't do it, no one else will. He wants off that island and he's "leading" the charge to get outta there. IMO of course.