This Makes No SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fire(storm)]

Originally Posted by Tainger

lol you didnt answer my question i asked why sylar has regeneration abilities when clare is still alive can you answer that question pleaseee very good job on noticing that detail

You totally missed the point. Hiro exists outside the space time continuum. The future hiro that Originally teleported back and said "Save the cheerleader" is the same hiro you see in 5 years gone. He came back, realised the town was still trashed, assumed his mission failed, and went back to his puzzle to see how to fix it. He was unaware of the changes to his timeline.

[scubadvr2]

Here is the simple truth about the Heroes timelines:

Definition of a timeline from the perspective of a time traveler:
A finite, linear period of time in a universe where time is infinite.

Timeline 1: Hiro travels 5 weeks to the future. Picks up a comic book and comes back to his own time. Having only gone to the future, not the past, he was able to both enter and exit the timeline.

Timeline 2: Hiro uses the comic book to change the future. Assuming he does not time travel for the next 5 years, Hiro goes back in time to kill Sylar. He stabs Sylar and he regenerates. Hiro changing the past put him into a new timeline. We did not see this timeline on TV.

Timeline 3: Hiro traveled back to his time after stabbing Sylar. He decides that to kill Sylar he must save Claire so Sylar doesn't have her power. Hiro goes back even farther and tells Peter to save Claire. Having changed the past, he now enters a new timeline. NOTE: This means that in the perspective of everyone but Hiro, Sylar was never stabbed.

Timeline 4: Hiro travels back to his time. Peter saved Claire, but the bomb still went off. Hiro is foreign to this timeline because it is not his own. Young Hiro who is native to this timeline travels to the future and sees Foreign Hiro. Native Hiro travels back to stop the bomb, enters new timeline thus eliminating Foreing Hiro (although Native Hiro has now become Foreign Hiro... cause this ain't his timeline either).

Timeline 5: Present day. Native Hiro is now alone. He left Foreign Hiro's timeline the second he changed the past when him and Ando went back and did something different than before. This created a new timeline. Such things happen as Sylar kills Ted, Thompson gets shot by Bennet, etc. (Everything that happened in episode 'Landslide'). The show is still in this timeline.

Based on this: Claire IS alive in the timeline we (as the TV audience) know. Peter saved her. She was killed in a previous timeline, which is the one that Hiro stabbed Sylar in. That timeline is no more.
Also, in the timeline (timeline 4) from Five Years Gone it is possible for there to be 2 Hiros. The one native to his timeline and the one foreign to it.

Finally, Miguel Arce is right when he said that in timeline 5 Future Hiro cannot be a terrorist. He was a terrorist in his previous timeline. He skipped the 5 years in the current timeline and is nothing. I, however, believe the directors did this on purpose, or else Five Years Gone would have been a very boring episode .
The same thing was done in Back to the Future Part 2. When Biff changed the past by giving his younger self the Almanac, he would have returned to that timeline and not the one he was previously in. However, if the directors had done that, the Doc and Marty would have been stuck in the future and the movie would have sucked (although i'm not positive it didn't suck anyway...lol)

Please note some of these timelines, obviously, we never saw on the show, we were only told about them such as when Hiro stabbed Sylar.

I only have one question. Why doesn't either of the Hiros just go back to before sylar killed Brian Davis.. before he has any powers? Wouldn't take much to kill him back then... But then again it's a TV show and that would be far too logical wouldn't it? Plus I guess that would end the season right there. Oh well...

[Miguel Arce]

hi everyone!

i am happy to know some of you are willing to talk about this
time travel stuff, its hard to find people willing to do it as most
of them get angry ( dont know why). I'd love to share and
comment this further, but right now i am heading wok.

please dont go and keep tunned i'll post as soon as i have the chance.

big hug from Mérida Yucatán México.
bye.

[Miguel Arce]

Originally Posted by Lemay

Valid logic but i'm afraid i have to disagree with you. Go re-watch the first episode. Hiro doesn't pull this off as well as you think. There is a clock behind him. as he's trying to teleport it starts speeding up until the point the numbers are basically flying by. showing (To my understanding)he goes forward five weeks and then he teleports.

Edit:
The sylar regeneration thing got to hand it to Roshi. Perception was changed somewhere along the line I'm thinking.

Hi Lemay! greetings from Mérida Yucatán México.

Well my point was simple: Author using to diferent criteria for the same event.

The first time Hiro traveled in time was in the subway (i have rewatched the episodes when this happends as you sugested), and indeed the clock in his back goes mad
(probably) meaning he traveled in time, and after that he teleported to NY.

-+- Have you noticed the people who is there while the clock goes mad? its the same people that gets down when the clock stops, so that would mean the all those people traveled in time with hiro?

The Fact i based my theories was: Hiro Jumped 5 weeks in time to NY.
it really doesn't matter if he first jumped 5 weeks in time and then teleported to NY or first teleported to NY and the jumped 5 weeks in time.

The fact is that he begins in that subway (october 2) and ends on NY 5 weeks later, the same day of the bomb (november .

So i hope that you can now agree with me, since the reason for you not to agree with me has nothing to do with my original point, that is: Author using to diferent criteria for the same event.

The fist hiro's jump was 5 weeks forward to NY and in that reality ( Ando is in his office and haven't see hiro in 5 weeks ( Hiro have beeing missing in that reality for 5 weeks).

The other jump was 5 years forward, and in that reality there is a F. Hiro, if the author honored the same conditions then Hiro and Ando should be missing 5 years until they reapeard in that future.

[Lemay]

Originally Posted by Miguel Arce

Hi Lemay! greetings from Mérida Yucatán México.

Well my point was simple: Author using to diferent criteria for the same event.

The first time Hiro traveled in time was in the subway (i have rewatched the episodes when this happends as you sugested), and indeed the clock in his back goes mad
(probably) meaning he traveled in time, and after that he teleported to NY.

-+- Have you noticed the people who is there while the clock goes mad? its the same people that gets down when the clock stops, so that would mean the all those people traveled in time with hiro?

The Fact i based my theories was: Hiro Jumped 5 weeks in time to NY.
it really doesn't matter if he first jumped 5 weeks in time and then teleported to NY or first teleported to NY and the jumped 5 weeks in time.

The fact is that he begins in that subway (october 2) and ends on NY 5 weeks later, the same day of the bomb (november .

So i hope that you can now agree with me, since the reason for you not to agree with me has nothing to do with my original point, that is: Author using to diferent criteria for the same event.

The fist hiro's jump was 5 weeks forward to NY and in that reality ( Ando is in his office and haven't see hiro in 5 weeks ( Hiro have beeing missing in that reality for 5 weeks).

The other jump was 5 years forward, and in that reality there is a F. Hiro, if the author honored the same conditions then Hiro and Ando should be missing 5 years until they reapeard in that future.

Ah indeed I must concede the point here. I didn't even consider that. In reality theres only two possibilities to go from here.

The first is that Hiro's power in the first jump is rather new and he has difficulty controlling it (speeding up time in the process rather than simple spacial manipulation and by the time he does the second jump he has faith in his powers. (via the sword and practice) Ending up that he manages to pull it off well enough to break the continuum leaving a residue of himself or maybe jumping time lines as suggested.(not really sure how any of this works.)

The second is brutal honesty. Time travel is a very difficult thing to pull off in fiction. Usually I'm against it for this very reason. Various other things make very little sense practically (hiro existing in two different spots in Save the cheerleader scene)

Another thought is that Future Hiro isn't Hiro. (Just kidding)

-Lemay

[Miguel Arce]

Hi everyone, i was working on some images, hope this help making all clear to all of us.

scubadvr2: i am reading and thinking about your post, i'll comment about it later
but seems a pretty good understanding about what happened. NICE!
i agree with scubadvr2, it could be intentional or the story would be boring
LOL.

[Tainger]

new episode wonder whats gunna happen next sylar had a sword through his cheat or stomache or something doesnt regenerate how does he live!@?!?!?!?! and the japanese translations for this show suck they're totally off

[Miguel Arce]

YES!, i must say i am a bit dissapointed about the episode 23.

i mean, with all the possible conclutions of the story the author came with
the cheapest one. Nathan taking peter away flying, HOW CHEAP IS THAT!
after the excelent story he started to tell us .

Its like beeing a kid again and hear the same : They live happily ever after.

i am seriously thinking about continuing watching the show man, it was a major let down to me.

greetings from Mérida Yucatán México.

[Sorrows]

Originally Posted by scubadvr2

Here is the simple truth about the Heroes timelines:

Definition of a timeline from the perspective of a time traveler:
A finite, linear period of time in a universe where time is infinite.

Timeline 1: Hiro travels 5 weeks to the future. Picks up a comic book and comes back to his own time. Having only gone to the future, not the past, he was able to both enter and exit the timeline.

Timeline 2: Hiro uses the comic book to change the future. Assuming he does not time travel for the next 5 years, Hiro goes back in time to kill Sylar. He stabs Sylar and he regenerates. Hiro changing the past put him into a new timeline. We did not see this timeline on TV.

Timeline 3: Hiro traveled back to his time after stabbing Sylar. He decides that to kill Sylar he must save Claire so Sylar doesn't have her power. Hiro goes back even farther and tells Peter to save Claire. Having changed the past, he now enters a new timeline. NOTE: This means that in the perspective of everyone but Hiro, Sylar was never stabbed.

Timeline 4: Hiro travels back to his time. Peter saved Claire, but the bomb still went off. Hiro is foreign to this timeline because it is not his own. Young Hiro who is native to this timeline travels to the future and sees Foreign Hiro. Native Hiro travels back to stop the bomb, enters new timeline thus eliminating Foreing Hiro (although Native Hiro has now become Foreign Hiro... cause this ain't his timeline either).

Timeline 5: Present day. Native Hiro is now alone. He left Foreign Hiro's timeline the second he changed the past when him and Ando went back and did something different than before. This created a new timeline. Such things happen as Sylar kills Ted, Thompson gets shot by Bennet, etc. (Everything that happened in episode 'Landslide'). The show is still in this timeline.

Based on this: Claire IS alive in the timeline we (as the TV audience) know. Peter saved her. She was killed in a previous timeline, which is the one that Hiro stabbed Sylar in. That timeline is no more.
Also, in the timeline (timeline 4) from Five Years Gone it is possible for there to be 2 Hiros. The one native to his timeline and the one foreign to it.

Finally, Miguel Arce is right when he said that in timeline 5 Future Hiro cannot be a terrorist. He was a terrorist in his previous timeline. He skipped the 5 years in the current timeline and is nothing. I, however, believe the directors did this on purpose, or else Five Years Gone would have been a very boring episode .
The same thing was done in Back to the Future Part 2. When Biff changed the past by giving his younger self the Almanac, he would have returned to that timeline and not the one he was previously in. However, if the directors had done that, the Doc and Marty would have been stuck in the future and the movie would have sucked (although i'm not positive it didn't suck anyway...lol)

Please note some of these timelines, obviously, we never saw on the show, we were only told about them such as when Hiro stabbed Sylar.

I only have one question. Why doesn't either of the Hiros just go back to before sylar killed Brian Davis.. before he has any powers? Wouldn't take much to kill him back then... But then again it's a TV show and that would be far too logical wouldn't it? Plus I guess that would end the season right there. Oh well...

You kick so much ass!

Thanks so much for this. I am back on track now.

[Miguel Arce]

Hello scubadvr2, big greet from Mérida, Yucatán México.
I agree with most of your ideas, except of beeing there 5 timelines.
This is my perception of the story
/*** please note some parts of this post are not meant to you. it's just that i had already typed it so i reused. ***/

Reality 0 ( just for not calling it "timeline", where reality is meaning "the things that happends").

Reality 0:

Hiro from reality 0 (lets call him hiro.0, that is hiro dot cero) jumps 5 weeks forward to NY, the magazine stuff, the police stuff, the police calls Ando.0, Ando.0 says hiro.0 is beeing missing for 5 weeks.

/* what i am saying is that in reality 0 there is a 5 weeks period with a hiro emptyness (lack of hiro LOL ).
"there is no Hiro for 5 weeks until he reapears in reality 0 + 5 weeks."*/

--Hiro.0 sees the bomb ( which happends on daylight, just for noticing ) and gets back to his time ( 5 weeks before) with the first 9th wonders.

--Hiro.0 takes Ando.0 and go to America to stop the bomb, creating a new reality: Reality 1.

Reality 1:

Hiro.1 and Ando.1 are in America now, there is no "save the chearleader" stuff jet, we "asume" for this reality that Claire is going to die then sylar can regenerate and peter is the one that explodes, and of course Ando.1 will die november 8 as he is not Ando.0 who would be in his office that day.

The time goes by in this reality without any "chearleader message", Ando.1 dies the Bomb day ( november 8 ), Hiro.1 stabs sylar and he
regenerates as claire is dead. Time continues and now its bomb day ( november 8 ) + 5 years, Ando.1 is still dead and Hiro.1 ( Young Hiro.1 is now a bad ass and he calls himself Future Hiro.1 LOL ) decides to go back in time (october 4) and give Peter petrelli a message.

Future Hiro.1 goes back and give the "save the chearleader" message, creating a new reality, reality 2. Future Hiro.1 gets back to "his own time" (5 years after, i dont think that is posible, however, lets asume he did.).

/* That is why i said: The first hiro time travel is what created the F. Hiro existence without Hiro.0's 5 week jump there would not be Reality 1, and thus no F. Hiro ( Hiro.1 )*/

Reality 2: Basically its Reality 1 + the chearleader message.

Hiro.1 calls isaac, peter answers the phone, peter pass the "chearleader message" along with the "Hiro from the future had a sword" stuff.
In that point, Hiro.1 and Ando.1 really became Hiro.2 and Ando.2.

As they go in the quest to get the sword, they end up toghether in linderman's place with the sword, and trying to scape from linderman's security they jump 5 years forward.

What i have been saying is: Hiro.2 and Ando.2 jumps forward from reality 2, this means that in reality 2, there is still a bomb,
claire is now alive, sylar can't regenerate. But there should not be another Hiro there (Future Hiro was in fact Hiro.1 and he should not
exist after the save the chearleader message, just like Ando.0 doesn't exist because of Ando.1).

I had already said that the author here used to diferent criteria for the same event.
If Hiro.2 and Ando.2 jumpet 5 years forward, then there should not be any Hiro.2 and Ando.2 in that reality for 5 years until they reapear instantly 5 years after. This is my original point.

Continuing... Hiro.2 and Ando.2 talks to Hiro.1 (Future Hiro), Hiro.2 again got captured by cops, and took into interrogation by parkman and the haitian, He eventually get his hands ond the 9th wonders #2, Hiro.2 and Ando.2 get back to their time, and doing it they create a new reality as they walk, reality 3.

Reality 3:

Hiro.3 saves Ando.3 and take him back to his office. Hiro.3 stabs sylar as the 9th wonders says. And in this reality there is no bomb, claire is alive, sylar can't regenerate and he get badly injured.

IN SHORT:

I think our ideas of the events difer in what you call timeline2.

Timeline 2: Hiro uses the comic book to change the future. Assuming he does not time travel for the next 5 years, Hiro goes back in time to kill Sylar. He stabs Sylar and he regenerates. Hiro changing the past put him into a new timeline. We did not see this timeline on TV.

As i see it, Future Hiro.1 says he stabbed sylar and sylar regenerated. He doesn't says when or how. It could be like you say: purposely going back and stabbing sylar, or ti could be by the natural flow of events in that timeline, when the time came he stabbed him (i mean beeing the "normal" hiro of that timeline (not as Future Hiro.1).

So basically i ended up with just 4 "realities"
P.S. I agree 100% with you, this kind of purposely error was made in order to tell a much more interestin story.
Greetings form Mérida Yucatán México.
i see you have a damn good understanding of the show, please keep in contact so we cant share more thougts about it