Timeline Comparison

[Drafterman]

This thread contains spoilers from the last episode "5 Years Later"

After watching the episode and thinking back on it, more and more questions come to mind.

First a summarization:

First there is Timeline A. In this timeline, Peter is not warned to save the cheerleader. Syler successfully manages to kill Claire, subsequently kills Ted, and nukes New York despite Hiro's attempt to kill him. As a result he resolves to determine how to prevent this from happening. His five-year research leads him to travel back in time to have Peter save Claire.

Question 1) If Hiro's research is so detailed he can go back to a point where he knows Peter is going to be on the subway, why couldn't he just go back and kill Sylar himself before he got to Claire? Take the VT shootings. Within days we have the entire history of the shooter displayed on TV, something similar would have definitely happened in the wake of nuking New York. Surely enough information to track Sylar and kill him, perhaps even before he made his first kill.

After providing his warning to Peter, Hiro destroys Timeline A and creates Timeline B. In this Timeline Peter prevents Sylar from killing Claire, but then Peter himself becomes the bomb that destroys New York.

Question 2) Somewhat of a paradox here. Hiro seems to retain his memories of his original timeline, otherwise he would know that Peter was now that bomb, and not Sylar. However, upon returning to the future of what is now Timeline B, everything seems to be the same as the future of Timeline A, as future Hiro never shows any confusion that would be evident if things were different.

While major events might still occur (Nathan becoming President, Sylar impersonating him, the hunt against the heroes) there should be minor differences that would have been a result of Claire surviving.

I can see why they did it the way they did. Present Hiro/Ando would need a guide to navigate the future, someone familiar with the events, so it would be easy simply to have everything be the way it is and future Hiro accept it, despite clearly remembering Timeline A.

3) Looking deeper we run into some other problems. The Peter of Timeline A would have been the badass he was in our Timeline B (since Hiro remembers him that way), but how would he have gotten there?

Without having attempted to save Claire, he wouldn't have had his crisis upon learning he was the bomb. Without those dreams he wouldn't have sought out Claude and Claude wouldn't have helped him realized his true talents. Assuming he did come across Claude somehow and did learn his true talents, one would wonder how he would have survived his fall off of the building without Claire's power in him.

Either we assume that he came in contact with Claire some other way (unlikely) or manifested Nathan's power of flight instead as he was supposed to in our Timeline.

4) This brings us to his scar. In Timeline A it's reasonable to believe he had gotten a scar somehow. In our Timeline, though, he has Claire's ability to heal, how could he have possibly gotten a scar? The only way I can think of is he was in the presence of the Haitian for a long enough period of time for the scar to form before he could have healed it.

5) I believe the Suresh's are special too. They apparently have the genetic ability to be repeatedly deceived by Sylar.

[TheCougar]

I bet the way it went is that hiro from the future in time line A (hiroA) didn't know that peter had saved Claire in his timeline and so went back to tell him to save her hoping to change things. If there was a Hiropre-A that had done the same thing then this is just a repeating feature of the story line that will never change as long as hiro is the only one that does time traveling. That would explain the scar still being there, and Hiro from the future time line B (HiroB) not knowing Claire had been saved. In fact Claire in time line B was hidden and hardly no one knew she was alive so this would make since.

It is very possible that Hiro doesn't realize his time traveling has no real consequence on the time line because it is part of the time line. I'm still trying to figure out if anything has actually changed between the two time lines and it is horribly difficult to remember all the details so if any one realizes something that has changed please tell me.

I think New York is going to blow up anyways and our final episode might just be peter and syler fighting as was in the end of this last episode *by the way should this thread have "spoiler" in it?*. I don't think we have seen who the vice president is and it is possible this is who will change everything to allow the mutants to live.


As for the x-men/marvel comics comments I’ve seen on other posts, they look similar because they are based on the same idea of people gaining special powers through evolution and the fact it tries to emulate human nature.

[BIGKIDD325]

Alright, first off, I don't believe Sylar was ever the one to blow up, in any of the timelines, its always Peter.

Hiro may not have been able to find Sylar and find a good time to kill him because of his name, Sylar. It's very possible that since he took on that name when he got his first power, Hiro may have had a very hard time finding out anything about his past with 2 different names. The VT shooter was always under the same name, plus, that was the FBI or CIA looking for info, not Hiro.

I don't know how, but the future probably remained unchanged, it depends on a few things. 1, how the Hero writers view the future, when does it change. It's possible until Hiro is able to play out his part in his time after Peter saved the Cheerleader, the future remains unchanged. Second, the fact that Claire was alive at the time of the bomb may have changed some of the heroes actions, still causing the bomb to go off, and Sylar to survive.

Peter was probably a badass in any timeline because he was clearly unhappy with himself for going nuclear and being responsible for millions of deaths.

Good theory on the scar, I didn't think of that.

[kaleidoscope_eyes]

Wait, wasn't the entire episode technically in Timeline B? If Hiro didn't go back in time to visit Peter during the episode, we wouldn't really know the differences between A and B. I might be wrong on this.

I forgot where the episode left off with Hiro and Mohinder, but maybe if the two of them teamed up, they could find in Dr. Suresh's files when Sylar first visited him, before he had taken too many powers. Mohinder seems to know the most about and have the most contact with Sylar, anyway, so it would at least make sense. However, I think I agree with the fact that the bomb will still probably go off in the season finale, with the episodes leading up to it being pre-explosion, and those in the next season post-explosion (and having a lot to do with time travel, making the whole show a whole lot more confusing).

I don't think Sylar could get the ability to travel through time, though. Not only would it make everything way too confusing, but then Hiro would be dead, so the heroes would lose their ability to travel through time. And then they'd be REALLY effed.

About the scar, this is a longshot, but maybe - especially since he has apparently gotten a lot better at controlling his abilities in five years - Peter chose not to completely heal himself, and leave the scar there as a sort of reminder of what he did and what he failed to stop from happening.

Ideas?

[Nopaco4u]

Everyone here is focusing on the wrong issues. You are all not giving them enough credit for their powers. Hiro has the power to Bend time and space. This is not the ‘Back to the Future’ time line, where you can kiss you mom, thus preventing your parents from meeting, thus making you dis-exist (which would mean you never would be able to kiss you mom). This as a multilayered timeline not just 2006-2012, but a 2006A-2012C(at least).
First you have A: Sylar kills clare in 2006, Peter never gets the message, or the will to learnt to control his powers and blows up NY in 2007A. Hiro attempts to kill sylar, only to find out he can’t die in this line.
He then creates a new time line. He charts out the map and determines that to create a timeline B, he needs to go to Peter in 2006B. Peter then saves Claire in 2006B, but still blows up the NY. So when Hiro A goes back to the future from the A-B split he returns to timeline B but still has all the knowledge and expirence of what happened in timeline A. Here is the key part, creating a new timeline, does not erase the old one. To everyone else, nothing changed, they don’t know any better. They don’t realize how Hiro can make new timelines, or that Isaac can paint things that happen in future of the timelines to be created. But Hiro A doesn’t know he’s in timeline B cause the major events still happen. Hiro B then teleports from 2007B to 2012B, and learns the bomb went off, Hiro B is then captured by Parkman B, and Hiro A goes to get help from Peter B. Hiro is then shown the Comic that takes place in timeline C, that is yet to be created. So Isaac could paint the future of timelines to be created by Hiro. Hiro then goes back to 2007 and creates a timeline C.
The show is called Heroes and we see time in such a way that Hiro sees it. Which is: 2006A>2012A>2006B>2007B>2012B>2007C. Hiro can bend time and space to travel through the different timelines. Isaac can paint things in the future of Hiro’s timelines, which is what Hiro uses as a guide book as to what he needs to do to create the timelines.

[Seslan Reed]

Hi, first time poster here.

I really think there is only one timeline.

Future Hiro said that Sylar regenerated when F-Hiro tried to kill him, right? And then as someone in another forum said, Peter didn't come in contact with Claire and didn't save her, so he had to heal himself the old-fashioned way and hence the scar. Everything makes sense up to this point.

But from episode 20, it's clearly stated that Claire is still alive because Peter DID save her and Sylar could only get to her after the explosion and impersonating Nathan, so Sylar couldn't have had HER ability to heal at the time of explosion. So why does Peter have a scar? And how did Sylar regenerate himself like F-Hiro claimed?

The first can be answered by two greatest likelihoods: a)Peter didn't want to remember his failure to save NY and along with it his memories of Claire, so he didn't activate his healing powers, or b)Peter was unconscious after he got cut, so he couldn't activate his powers (remember how the invisible guy knocked him out during training).

Assuming that it was Sylar who exploded, the second question has two possibilities, the first and most unlikely is that Sylar got the power from some unintroduced hero, the second and more probable is that Sylar used Linderman's abilities to regenerate. This can be done by either killing Linderman (assuming Sylar can use the healing powers on himself) or by cooperating with Linderman, that is if Linderman can be there at the scene to help him out and either be suicidal or find some way not to be affected by the resulting explosion.

But then we come to the discrepancies between Peter's account and F-Hiro's account of the explosion. Peter in episode 20 clearly said that he himself exploded, but F-Hiro said it was Sylar who did it. In order for these two accounts to both be accurate, Peter must have come in contact with shape-shifter Candice at some point and changed his appearance into Sylar when F-Hiro attacked him. (This must be the case as F-Hiro knows Peter quite well and wouldn't mistake him for Sylar unless Peter changed his appearance.) The reason for impersonating Sylar is so F-Hiro WILL kill him without hesitation and stop the explosion before it occurs, but then he regenerates unwillingly (presumably Claire is at the scene to remind him of his power). In this case Sylar doesn't need to have regenerative powers or even BE there for the story to make sense. (And Sylar did say something to the effect of Peter framing him for the explosion.)

However, a loose end here is that F-Hiro made the wrong assumption that Claire was dead and "Sylar" got the power from her, and then goes on to tell Past Hiro this erroneous account. Reasons for this can be a)in order to protect Claire's whereabouts from the Company, HRG manipulated information so that it was Claire and not the other cheerleader who appeared dead in the news and other documents. (Memories are no problem since he has the Haitian on his side.) And b)after the explosion, Peter never told anyone, including Hiro, about thismistake because he was guilty, angry, or just realized that he didn't want to sacrifice Claire's life to Sylar (and hence never meeting her in the first place, no regeneration after F-Hiro attacks him, dead before explosion, etc.) so that NY may POSSIBLY be safe from the explosion but ends up with an invincible villain on the loose either way.

Thus the countdown continues without interruption, and the whole season ends with a bang.

[Nopaco4u]

two long post close, I like my theory about time beter. Hiro A, was probally under the assumption that Sylar was the bomb because that is what Nathan led them to believe. So far, on timelines A, and B Peter is the bomb. Or it could be that In timeline A Sylar is the bomb, and kills everyone. Then goes back changes the future to prevent sylar, but causes Peter to become the bomb. then when He returns, to timeline B, Nathan B continues to frame sylar, when in reality, it was Peter in timeline B.

The scar factor confuses me. In timeline A, he never got the power to regenerate, Other than that, there is a lot of time missing, so the aquisition of the scar depends on the circumstances of the scar. One being that maybe He was with the hatian when he got the cut so couldn't heal it before it set.

Or we know he can have great control of his use of power, so most likely he just wanted to keep the scar as a fashion statement. Chick dig guys with scars, maybe he had a dual with hiro, got owned and left the scar.

[DJGonzo]

Here is a question...If Peter is able to absorb peoples powers then why wasn't he able to absorb D.L. or Candace's powers whenever he was around Nathan(Sylar). One would think that he would notice that all of a sudden there were powers that he never had and since notice that something was not right.

[Nopaco4u]

Originally Posted by DJGonzo

Here is a question...If Peter is able to absorb peoples powers then why wasn't he able to absorb D.L. or Candace's powers whenever he was around Nathan(Sylar). One would think that he would notice that all of a sudden there were powers that he never had and since notice that something was not right.

This is my biggest issue with the future episode. Sylar as Nathan would have had to completly avoid a lot of people while being Nathan. Three in particular being: Peter, Parkman, and the Haitian.

He was on the phone with Parkman the entire episode, if they ever met face to face, it is unrealistic that Sylar would be able to refrain from even thinking about killing him. This would have inevitably outted him.

The same holds true for peter, who whould he have a much higher chance of coming into contact with. Peter could read Sylars mind and out him, and kill him. Or the random aquisition of a sylar power from meeting his brother might get him. This would mean that from the moment Sylar killed Nathan and took his place, the two brothers never met. And while we are not given a timeframe, we are led to believe it was a while.

Finally for obvious reasons, He couldn't have ever come anywhere close to the haitian or he wouldn't have been able to keep his form as Nathan, and would turn back into Sylar, and be totally exposed and helpless. so while the meeting of the haitian is the most detremental, it is also the easist to avoid I suppose, but in that set up, you would think the organization would have made more precautions.

[Roshi]

Originally Posted by Nopaco4u

This is my biggest issue with the future episode. Sylar as Nathan would have had to completly avoid a lot of people while being Nathan. Three in particular being: Peter, Parkman, and the Haitian.

He was on the phone with Parkman the entire episode, if they ever met face to face, it is unrealistic that Sylar would be able to refrain from even thinking about killing him. This would have inevitably outted him.

My current theory is that Parkman knew that Sylar was the President, but continued to follow him because of either 1. his position in Homeland security 2. Sylar new where Janice and baby Matthew were or 3. He was afraid that Sylar would kill him for his power. Why else would Parkman need to bring Claire to the President, unless he was afraid of Sylar's wraith at letting Future Hiro and Ando escape.

Originally Posted by Nopaco4u

The same holds true for peter, who whould he have a much higher chance of coming into contact with. Peter could read Sylars mind and out him, and kill him. Or the random aquisition of a sylar power from meeting his brother might get him. This would mean that from the moment Sylar killed Nathan and took his place, the two brothers never met. And while we are not given a timeframe, we are led to believe it was a while.

I'm pretty sure that Peter has been underground for quite some time. It is shown in the graphic novels that he worked with Hiro to rescue his fellow mutants from prison, and that was years ago. Also he thinks that his brother betrayed the mutant community by introducing anti-mutant legislature.

Originally Posted by Nopaco4u

Finally for obvious reasons, He couldn't have ever come anywhere close to the haitian or he wouldn't have been able to keep his form as Nathan, and would turn back into Sylar, and be totally exposed and helpless. so while the meeting of the haitian is the most detremental, it is also the easist to avoid I suppose, but in that set up, you would think the organization would have made more precautions.

It is easy to think of an excuse to tell the secret service that would prevent the Haitian from ever getting close to President Sylar. The Haitian can erase memories, and if the Haitian was ever turned, then the President's memories (basically his life as he knew it) would be in jeopardy. With as much anti-mutant bigotry as there was in the future, that would be more than enough of a reason to never let the Haitian near the President.

Besides, security on a President as controversial as Sylar had been would be immense, especially in a world of people with superpowers.