Ben's memory - Page 2

kellybee · 03-24-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talontbo

hey Gr8,,

Your missing it...

Ask yourself,

Is it possible, that the Flashback we saw of Richard, in the hospital, on the day Locke was born.. was set in a Time Line that is associated with what we are now seeing? And not what we all thought we were seeing...

You see, the debate we all had then was whether Richard had time traveled BACK, to see Locke be born... and then later he traveled back to Test Locke like some Dali Lama...

And then there was the Richard Knew he would be born.... discussion...

Fact is... the event that took Locke to see Richard when Jughead needed disposal had not even occurred in either time line...

So again I say...

Did we see or have we been shown and not recognized, Flashbacks that were from .....

MULTIPLE TIME LINE!!!!!?????

I understand the concept is difficult to wrap the noodle around... I am just asking.... is it possible???

Sure I understand what you're saying, although what I was getting at is whether or not Ben will wake up one day suddenly remembering he met Sayid in the past, like Desmond did after Faraday knocked on the hatch door.

Lurcher · 03-24-2009, 07:21 AM

Kelly, i think that Ben has always remembered his encounter. Desmond's different, as he is daniel's constant- daniel can meet him at any time in his life and his consciousness will unstick briefly and safely to take that memory to his present. Charlotte 'just remembered' her encounter with Daniel as becoming unstuck in time took her to a moment she'd suppressed due to it's traumatic effect on her.

These ideas may only be in my head as in the last year i've read everything Kurt Vonnegut ever had published...

Talontbo · 03-24-2009, 07:35 AM

Hey Kelly,

Now that Ben is in the CURRENT time line for HIM.... not with Kate, Jack and the gang...

It may be possible that Ben will have those memories that are being established in the NEW DHARMA PAST TIME LINE.....

But, when Flight 815 Crashed.... those memories would not have been possible as those changed events to the past had not occurred.....

And that's my point...

Have we seen Flashbacks, particularly with Richard and Ben that may have covered...

BOTH TIME LINES?????

like Richard, obviously acting on Locke's information about his birth... And us seeing it long before it actually happened... There is only one answer... The Richard Flashbacks for sure, were in fact Flashbacks from this new time line and Time Jumps consequences.

We now know Richard did not Travel Back in Time to Dali Lama Locke...

So, some of the Ben's Flashbacks could in fact be from both Time Lines as well.... and he may or may not benefit from the knowledge of his childhood....

See, even if he can now remember where he encounter Sayid as a child... Sayid in currently in Dharma Time....

Lurcher · 03-24-2009, 08:26 AM

I think the Dharma timeline is still timeline A that we've already seen, and the future is changed a few years AFTER arrival in the 70s, i.e at the end of this season an 'incident' occurs where the time travellers have the chance to keep their mouths shut and stay with the initiative until the purge, or change history so it becomes the timeline we're seeing in the future.

sugarnuts · 03-24-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

I think the Dharma timeline is still timeline A that we've already seen, and the future is changed a few years AFTER arrival in the 70s, i.e at the end of this season an 'incident' occurs where the time travellers have the chance to keep their mouths shut and stay with the initiative until the purge, or change [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]history[/color][/color] so it becomes the timeline we're seeing in the future.

Yeah i don't think we're into the multiple timeline thing right now. I do like the idea that at the end of the season, our losties will be faced with the option to change the past, or at least try to. Good theory lurcher

kellybee · 03-25-2009, 03:38 AM

OK so do we think that Bens future actions in 2007 will be influenced by newly remembered memories?

Hurley_Bird_Special · 03-25-2009, 05:35 AM

I think Ben is able to move his mind through the time-line a la the phenomenon that Desmond experienced. The experiment that Faraday made with his rabbit and failed miserably with his girlfriend. Only Ben has control over it. I'm not sure if he can go back and forward or in just one direction. The proof I have for this is when Ben took Sawyer to show him that they were on the other island and not the island he had crashed on with the other Losties. Sawyer makes the quote about the George and the bunnies, a quote that is easily recognizable to anyone who's ever made it past the 9th grade. Ben seems to have no clue what he's talking about, yet minutes later he is able to quote a more obscure passage from the novel word for word. I think this is how Ben tends to have all the answers and I also thinks this explains why he was even creepy as a little kid. Only now things are happening that challenge what he "knows" is going to happen. This ability is why he is able to adjust on the fly. "I always have a plan, John." So, if he is able to go backwards to anytime in his life he can go back and see what is his past but essentially the future of the Losties.
I'm sure this theory has many holes, but this is a thought I had a while back. I think it helps to explain a lot. I welcome your slings and fiery arrows.

Talontbo · 03-25-2009, 08:31 AM

Hey Kelly,

Do you mean from here on out??? Currently Ben appears to be unconscious. That and to date we only have him seeing Sayid, when Ben was a small boy. We do not have any evidence YET that he has seen our other friends. But it should be a safe bet that he has.

Problem is, Ben is currently in a time line that seems to have, Sun, Lapidus, Locke, none of which are currently in 1977 Dharma Time... as for the rest, I am not sure how his NEW MEMORIES will help if they are in fact regarding those Friends of ours that are back in time. But I suspect we may get to see him take advantage of the new memories if he does in fct hook up with Richard after he wakes up from the bop on the head Sun inflicted... LOL

Of course we do have Sun on her new quest to get to 1977 with Christian's help... If she makes it along with Lapidus. Ben may gain those memories as well. This seems like a safe bet at this point.

g8rfan · 03-25-2009, 12:18 PM

Assuming that they "gain" the memories, when does that occur? It would make sense that it would occur based on the timeline of the person that caused the memory. For example, if Sayid is supposed to be in 2007, but does something to someone (like Ben) in 1977, then the memory should appear to Ben in 2007.

But this is not the case with Desmond or Charlotte. Desmond should have gained his memory of Faraday shortly after leaving the island. Instead, it was three years later. Why? Charlotte seemed to remember scarey Faraday before Faraday's timeline had entered 1974. Did she always have that memory?

Puzzling... But I guess that's the question this thread is all about. My vote is that they have had their memories all along except for Desmond (who is special). They may not make the connections until they see the person in the future, so there's not much they can do with the memories. Even if young Ben gets more involved, he will not know their real names and where they came from until, if his memory is good, when he meets them in 2004.

Talontbo · 03-25-2009, 12:41 PM

Ben would have gained the memories when he passed through the Window on Flight 316.

Desmond gained his while he slept on what appeared to be his and Evil Penny's Yacht. This one occurred at the moment Faraday alter Desmond's future by banging on Swan's back door.

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03-24-2009, 07:21 AM	#12
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	Kelly, i think that Ben has always remembered his encounter. Desmond's different, as he is daniel's constant- daniel can meet him at any time in his life and his consciousness will unstick briefly and safely to take that memory to his present. Charlotte 'just remembered' her encounter with Daniel as becoming unstuck in time took her to a moment she'd suppressed due to it's traumatic effect on her. These ideas may only be in my head as in the last year i've read everything Kurt Vonnegut ever had published...

03-24-2009, 07:35 AM	#13
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	Hey Kelly, Now that Ben is in the CURRENT time line for HIM.... not with Kate, Jack and the gang... It may be possible that Ben will have those memories that are being established in the NEW DHARMA PAST TIME LINE..... But, when Flight 815 Crashed.... those memories would not have been possible as those changed events to the past had not occurred..... And that's my point... Have we seen Flashbacks, particularly with Richard and Ben that may have covered... BOTH TIME LINES????? like Richard, obviously acting on Locke's information about his birth... And us seeing it long before it actually happened... There is only one answer... The Richard Flashbacks for sure, were in fact Flashbacks from this new time line and Time Jumps consequences. We now know Richard did not Travel Back in Time to Dali Lama Locke... So, some of the Ben's Flashbacks could in fact be from both Time Lines as well.... and he may or may not benefit from the knowledge of his childhood.... See, even if he can now remember where he encounter Sayid as a child... Sayid in currently in Dharma Time....

03-24-2009, 08:26 AM	#14
Lurcher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: London Posts: 171	I think the Dharma timeline is still timeline A that we've already seen, and the future is changed a few years AFTER arrival in the 70s, i.e at the end of this season an 'incident' occurs where the time travellers have the chance to keep their mouths shut and stay with the initiative until the purge, or change history so it becomes the timeline we're seeing in the future.

03-25-2009, 03:38 AM	#16
kellybee Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 87	OK so do we think that Bens future actions in 2007 will be influenced by newly remembered memories?

03-25-2009, 05:35 AM	#17
Hurley_Bird_Special Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 21	I think Ben is able to move his mind through the time-line a la the phenomenon that Desmond experienced. The experiment that Faraday made with his rabbit and failed miserably with his girlfriend. Only Ben has control over it. I'm not sure if he can go back and forward or in just one direction. The proof I have for this is when Ben took Sawyer to show him that they were on the other island and not the island he had crashed on with the other Losties. Sawyer makes the quote about the George and the bunnies, a quote that is easily recognizable to anyone who's ever made it past the 9th grade. Ben seems to have no clue what he's talking about, yet minutes later he is able to quote a more obscure passage from the novel word for word. I think this is how Ben tends to have all the answers and I also thinks this explains why he was even creepy as a little kid. Only now things are happening that challenge what he "knows" is going to happen. This ability is why he is able to adjust on the fly. "I always have a plan, John." So, if he is able to go backwards to anytime in his life he can go back and see what is his past but essentially the future of the Losties. I'm sure this theory has many holes, but this is a thought I had a while back. I think it helps to explain a lot. I welcome your slings and fiery arrows.

03-25-2009, 08:31 AM	#18
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	Hey Kelly, Do you mean from here on out??? Currently Ben appears to be unconscious. That and to date we only have him seeing Sayid, when Ben was a small boy. We do not have any evidence YET that he has seen our other friends. But it should be a safe bet that he has. Problem is, Ben is currently in a time line that seems to have, Sun, Lapidus, Locke, none of which are currently in 1977 Dharma Time... as for the rest, I am not sure how his NEW MEMORIES will help if they are in fact regarding those Friends of ours that are back in time. But I suspect we may get to see him take advantage of the new memories if he does in fct hook up with Richard after he wakes up from the bop on the head Sun inflicted... LOL Of course we do have Sun on her new quest to get to 1977 with Christian's help... If she makes it along with Lapidus. Ben may gain those memories as well. This seems like a safe bet at this point.

03-25-2009, 12:18 PM	#19
g8rfan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 159	Assuming that they "gain" the memories, when does that occur? It would make sense that it would occur based on the timeline of the person that caused the memory. For example, if Sayid is supposed to be in 2007, but does something to someone (like Ben) in 1977, then the memory should appear to Ben in 2007. But this is not the case with Desmond or Charlotte. Desmond should have gained his memory of Faraday shortly after leaving the island. Instead, it was three years later. Why? Charlotte seemed to remember scarey Faraday before Faraday's timeline had entered 1974. Did she always have that memory? Puzzling... But I guess that's the question this thread is all about. My vote is that they have had their memories all along except for Desmond (who is special). They may not make the connections until they see the person in the future, so there's not much they can do with the memories. Even if young Ben gets more involved, he will not know their real names and where they came from until, if his memory is good, when he meets them in 2004.

03-25-2009, 12:41 PM	#20
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	Ben would have gained the memories when he passed through the Window on Flight 316. Desmond gained his while he slept on what appeared to be his and Evil Penny's Yacht. This one occurred at the moment Faraday alter Desmond's future by banging on Swan's back door.