Lost: Episode 4.11 "Cabin Fever" General Thoughts - Page 5

CamaroHeed · 05-12-2008, 11:33 AM

Ben's comment about Destiny being a fickel !@#!@ is interesting (and awesome!); does that mean that Jacob is the personification of destiny? Like destiny is not just a thing, its an actual being, thus its a !@#!@? I was still wondering about the different coordinates (305 versus 325); as many have posted, it could be because the island has moved or has been moved. I can buy that for now, so I wont go any further on that one. I have to say that I am so glad that Desmond is also off the island (at least as far as we know at this point).

CamaroHeed · 05-12-2008, 11:33 AM

And what was with John picking the knife item? I sort of interpreted that as John not being the "typical" special kid that Alpert was looking for at that time. Obviously later on, Alpert again feels that John is special. So mabe the knife is an important piece of hte puzzle. Maybe that was a sign to Alpert that the final epic island battle is nearing. But Alpert left the home as if John was nothing special at all. I would have thought Alpert would have said somtehing more like "Well John, the knife isnt yours. You arent QUITE READY for the special school, but maybe later on." And Alpert tries to recruit John again with the Mittelos summer camp. Weird, its like Alpert cant make up his mind. ANd its important to note that John's and Ben's moms were both named Emily and both John and Ben were born prematurely. Coincidence, nah...

(And I seriously apologize for all the posts; I had to get all my thoughts in!!!)

80sPro · 05-12-2008, 11:41 AM

It just isn't a proper discussion until you weigh in, CamHeed! Thoughtful posts as usual from you!!!

jbragg · 05-12-2008, 08:24 PM

Hi folks, this is my first post. I attempted to get the folks over on Dharmasecrets to wake up with this idea, but their thinking is just too conventional, so for you I offer a complete outline (with running show times for your convenience) of what you saw on the freighter, but that no one has realized happened.

We saw two separate parallel times lines on the freighter during "Cabin Fever" and before anyone replies, please watch the episode again along with this outline. Enjoy.

First Timeline
3:52
Dead of night, pitch black.....Keamy and men arrive on the Kahana and remove one man (Mayhew) and a cart him to sick bay with his guts hanging out. Keamy says, within earshot of Sayid, "A black piller of smoke, threw him fifty feet in the air...ripped his guts out."

Second Timeline
18:20
Aboard ship, broad daylight outside......Lapides announces that the man is dead.

20:12
On deck in broad daylight........we see the same man taken from the chopper, this time with a blanket over him. The same set of events slightly altered. And apparently, Sayid and Desmond are talking about having overheard that his injuries resulted from a gunshot.

Timeline unknown
24:53
Establishing shot of the Kahana, apparently at daybreak or sunset.

Second Timeline
26:14
Kahana broad daylight. Gault tells Sayid what to do.

First Timeline
31:48
Kahana dead of night. chopper being loaded for the return trip.

Have a look at this and ask yourself some questions. Did it take almost two full days for Keamy to make a return? He would never have waited that long. Look at his urgency. Would Sayid and Desmond be on deck for HOURS talking about Mayhew not being shot when Sayid would have easily heard Keamy talking about the smoke monster?

People aren't paying attention. This is exactly what Michael Emerson meant when he said time would be going sideways.

Have fun.

Talontbo · 05-12-2008, 11:08 PM

hey Jbragg..

interesting first post... and i would like to hear how you could include this.. on the Island..

Night.. Smokey slams Keamy's man.....

Off goes the gang... and Ben Locke and Hurley head to the cabin.. Sawyer and Claire and Mile to the beach..

Sawyer Mile and the baby awake... Claire is gone... back to Lockes gang..

truckin around. Locke asked Ben... which way... No Clue.. he is following Hurley..

make camp... weird Goodspeed dream.. its morning.. off to the Mass Grave... get map..

Nightfalls... its dark.. arrives at cabin...

how much time has passed???? 1 night or 2???? seems 2 to me.... or is it just we start

left at night... spent a night.. and arrived at Cabin at night....

anyway to correlate this with the ship... seems as though they are similar... in time span.... especially if as I suppose.... Sayid and Sawyer hit the beach close to the same time... then the timing will closely match.. wouldn't it???

jbragg · 05-13-2008, 09:26 AM

Hi Talontbo,

Allright, first, you are thinking in a much too linear and conventional fashion about a show that is anything but linear and conventional. Did you rewatch the episode using my outline? And to make a point much belabored made elsewhere; island time DOES NOT equal off-island time and I am only talking about the freighter.

Second, ask yourself the cental question: why would Keamy delay a whole day, much less two to make a return to the island? He wouldn't and he didn't. He was behaving like a man on fire. This episode was VERY cleverly edited to give the casual viewer the impression of linearity. I should know, I was a video editor for six years (network and local).

Third, the split could have happened as the copter passed back through the temporal storm on its way to the freighter. The timelines could also collapse on its journey(s) back to the island IF all the events from the discreet timelines have resolved. BTW, how's your background in quantum mechanics? Mine? PhD.

Oh and just for fun the device strapped to Keamy's left arm is a KORG MA-30 metronome. After all, it's about time isn't it?

rivum · 05-13-2008, 10:34 AM

excellent observations and analysis jbragg.
i haven't seen anyone bring this up yet. and i certainly missed it while watching. if i end up watching the episode again, i'll be sure to watch for it!

lost_grrl · 05-13-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbragg

Hi Talontbo,

Allright, first, you are thinking in a much too linear and conventional fashion about a show that is anything but linear and conventional. Did you rewatch the episode using my outline? And to make a point much belabored made elsewhere; island time DOES NOT equal off-island time and I am only talking about the freighter.

Second, ask yourself the cental question: why would Keamy delay a whole day, much less two to make a return to the island? He wouldn't and he didn't. He was behaving like a man on fire. This episode was VERY cleverly edited to give the casual viewer the impression of linearity. I should know, I was a video editor for six years (network and local).

Third, the split could have happened as the copter passed back through the temporal storm on its way to the freighter. The timelines could also collapse on its journey(s) back to the island IF all the events from the discreet timelines have resolved. BTW, how's your background in quantum mechanics? Mine? PhD.

Oh and just for fun the device strapped to Keamy's left arm is a KORG MA-30 metronome. After all, it's about time isn't it?

Nice catch on the day/night strangeness. I am going to re-watch the epi with your timeline in mind.

As for the arm band...didn't Keamy show it off as some sort of threat? I think I remember this, but will double check when I re-watch...why would a metronome be threatening?

Talontbo · 05-13-2008, 12:52 PM

hey Jbragg,

to be honest.. Linear or not.. the Freighter scene I haven't really reviewed with any great depth of thought.. I am still focusing on the opening scene and Locke, Ben, Cabin, Christian, Claire... Richard... and have had a time consuming postathon...

that said... from your statement.. Video Editor... I think from a more experienced perspective I will defer to you....

in my post I really did not touch on the freighter... but was wondering if you could correlate... the island to the Freighter..

here is why... I listed the Night, Day, Night, Day Night..... not counting the first night.. as that was the start.. Monster Time....

we know the chopper is flying over the beach... Your Last Night... with Keamy heading back... if.. in the next episode... this is when Sawyer, Miles and Aaron reach the beach... then the time lines would be very very close...

as you mentioned... based on Keamy.. and his pissed off state of mind.. If I was him... clearly I want some payback.. and I want it now....

I will rewatched the Freighter scenes... and try to note your observations.. though I have to say... not having a more digital concept of Video Editing.. I am at a slightly HUGE disadvantage... I can only see the sky.. day or night... as a guide.....but I will try...

Ok Jbragg...

watching now... The scene where Ben, Locke and Hurley.. decide to make camp.. is 24hrs later..

then the scene switches to the Freighter... the same night...as Ben, Locke and Hurley make camp... how do we know this??? because... Sawyer, Miles, Claire and Aaron had to hide from Keamy.. the morning after the MONSTER ATTACK... so it took 24 hrs for them to actually... find the Pilot.. get the med kit.. get on the chopper and get back to the Freighter... to evacuate the island...

the next freighter scene.. it appear to be morning.. this would now be the second morning/midday and is consistent with the island timeline.. Ben, Locke and Hurley waking up.. Goodspeed having told Locke what to do... Keamy tells Lapdius to Gas up the Chopper....

after now watching it.. Desmond and Sayid...on deck.. day time.. Lapidus getting the chopper ready... Keamy getting his new assortment of weapons... and finally ready to fly that night..

I have to say... I think you forgot last episode and the Meeting of Lapidus and Miles/Sawyer/Claire/Aaron.. and the Hiding from Keamy and his men as they make their way to the chopper...

a far as I can tell... the time lines are very very close.....

so.. the only thing left to really consider is that damn Sat Phone message in Morse Code asking about the Doctor.. and how is it.. he is alive when the Message on the Freighter is received and Dead at the same time on the beach??? this doesn't seem to be a so much a displacement.. as Two Places at the same Time.. if we are to assume.. radio transmissions are unaffected... and so far we do not really have solid proof they are affected... even the man speaking to the Doctor. as well as the Doctor himself were a bit perplexed... wouldn't Keamy have briefed his men to some small degree???

Talontbo · 05-13-2008, 12:57 PM

Lost_grl..

I got the same impression.. a remote detonator.. and there was the one camera shot of what looked similar to a small thermo nuclear device... but it was fast and I may have wanting it so much I just imagined it.... Even on the freighter it looked as though Keamy would hit the button then.. his threat... and he looked like he meant it.. clearly a man on a mission...

05-12-2008, 08:24 PM	#44
jbragg Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12	There Are Two Separate Time Lines on the Freighter Hi folks, this is my first post. I attempted to get the folks over on Dharmasecrets to wake up with this idea, but their thinking is just too conventional, so for you I offer a complete outline (with running show times for your convenience) of what you saw on the freighter, but that no one has realized happened. We saw two separate parallel times lines on the freighter during "Cabin Fever" and before anyone replies, please watch the episode again along with this outline. Enjoy. First Timeline 3:52 Dead of night, pitch black.....Keamy and men arrive on the Kahana and remove one man (Mayhew) and a cart him to sick bay with his guts hanging out. Keamy says, within earshot of Sayid, "A black piller of smoke, threw him fifty feet in the air...ripped his guts out." Second Timeline 18:20 Aboard ship, broad daylight outside......Lapides announces that the man is dead. 20:12 On deck in broad daylight........we see the same man taken from the chopper, this time with a blanket over him. The same set of events slightly altered. And apparently, Sayid and Desmond are talking about having overheard that his injuries resulted from a gunshot. Timeline unknown 24:53 Establishing shot of the Kahana, apparently at daybreak or sunset. Second Timeline 26:14 Kahana broad daylight. Gault tells Sayid what to do. First Timeline 31:48 Kahana dead of night. chopper being loaded for the return trip. Have a look at this and ask yourself some questions. Did it take almost two full days for Keamy to make a return? He would never have waited that long. Look at his urgency. Would Sayid and Desmond be on deck for HOURS talking about Mayhew not being shot when Sayid would have easily heard Keamy talking about the smoke monster? People aren't paying attention. This is exactly what Michael Emerson meant when he said time would be going sideways. Have fun.

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05-12-2008, 11:33 AM	#41
CamaroHeed Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 334	Ben's comment about Destiny being a fickel !@#!@ is interesting (and awesome!); does that mean that Jacob is the personification of destiny? Like destiny is not just a thing, its an actual being, thus its a !@#!@? I was still wondering about the different coordinates (305 versus 325); as many have posted, it could be because the island has moved or has been moved. I can buy that for now, so I wont go any further on that one. I have to say that I am so glad that Desmond is also off the island (at least as far as we know at this point).

05-12-2008, 11:41 AM	#43
80sPro Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 247	It just isn't a proper discussion until you weigh in, CamHeed! Thoughtful posts as usual from you!!!

05-12-2008, 11:08 PM	#45
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	hey Jbragg.. interesting first post... and i would like to hear how you could include this.. on the Island.. Night.. Smokey slams Keamy's man..... Off goes the gang... and Ben Locke and Hurley head to the cabin.. Sawyer and Claire and Mile to the beach.. Sawyer Mile and the baby awake... Claire is gone... back to Lockes gang.. truckin around. Locke asked Ben... which way... No Clue.. he is following Hurley.. make camp... weird Goodspeed dream.. its morning.. off to the Mass Grave... get map.. Nightfalls... its dark.. arrives at cabin... how much time has passed???? 1 night or 2???? seems 2 to me.... or is it just we start left at night... spent a night.. and arrived at Cabin at night.... anyway to correlate this with the ship... seems as though they are similar... in time span.... especially if as I suppose.... Sayid and Sawyer hit the beach close to the same time... then the timing will closely match.. wouldn't it???

05-13-2008, 09:26 AM	#46
jbragg Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12	Hi Talontbo, Allright, first, you are thinking in a much too linear and conventional fashion about a show that is anything but linear and conventional. Did you rewatch the episode using my outline? And to make a point much belabored made elsewhere; island time DOES NOT equal off-island time and I am only talking about the freighter. Second, ask yourself the cental question: why would Keamy delay a whole day, much less two to make a return to the island? He wouldn't and he didn't. He was behaving like a man on fire. This episode was VERY cleverly edited to give the casual viewer the impression of linearity. I should know, I was a video editor for six years (network and local). Third, the split could have happened as the copter passed back through the temporal storm on its way to the freighter. The timelines could also collapse on its journey(s) back to the island IF all the events from the discreet timelines have resolved. BTW, how's your background in quantum mechanics? Mine? PhD. Oh and just for fun the device strapped to Keamy's left arm is a KORG MA-30 metronome. After all, it's about time isn't it?

05-13-2008, 10:34 AM	#47
rivum Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 114	excellent observations and analysis jbragg. i haven't seen anyone bring this up yet. and i certainly missed it while watching. if i end up watching the episode again, i'll be sure to watch for it!

05-13-2008, 12:52 PM	#49
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	hey Jbragg, to be honest.. Linear or not.. the Freighter scene I haven't really reviewed with any great depth of thought.. I am still focusing on the opening scene and Locke, Ben, Cabin, Christian, Claire... Richard... and have had a time consuming postathon... that said... from your statement.. Video Editor... I think from a more experienced perspective I will defer to you.... in my post I really did not touch on the freighter... but was wondering if you could correlate... the island to the Freighter.. here is why... I listed the Night, Day, Night, Day Night..... not counting the first night.. as that was the start.. Monster Time.... we know the chopper is flying over the beach... Your Last Night... with Keamy heading back... if.. in the next episode... this is when Sawyer, Miles and Aaron reach the beach... then the time lines would be very very close... as you mentioned... based on Keamy.. and his pissed off state of mind.. If I was him... clearly I want some payback.. and I want it now.... I will rewatched the Freighter scenes... and try to note your observations.. though I have to say... not having a more digital concept of Video Editing.. I am at a slightly HUGE disadvantage... I can only see the sky.. day or night... as a guide.....but I will try... Ok Jbragg... watching now... The scene where Ben, Locke and Hurley.. decide to make camp.. is 24hrs later.. then the scene switches to the Freighter... the same night...as Ben, Locke and Hurley make camp... how do we know this??? because... Sawyer, Miles, Claire and Aaron had to hide from Keamy.. the morning after the MONSTER ATTACK... so it took 24 hrs for them to actually... find the Pilot.. get the med kit.. get on the chopper and get back to the Freighter... to evacuate the island... the next freighter scene.. it appear to be morning.. this would now be the second morning/midday and is consistent with the island timeline.. Ben, Locke and Hurley waking up.. Goodspeed having told Locke what to do... Keamy tells Lapdius to Gas up the Chopper.... after now watching it.. Desmond and Sayid...on deck.. day time.. Lapidus getting the chopper ready... Keamy getting his new assortment of weapons... and finally ready to fly that night.. I have to say... I think you forgot last episode and the Meeting of Lapidus and Miles/Sawyer/Claire/Aaron.. and the Hiding from Keamy and his men as they make their way to the chopper... a far as I can tell... the time lines are very very close..... so.. the only thing left to really consider is that damn Sat Phone message in Morse Code asking about the Doctor.. and how is it.. he is alive when the Message on the Freighter is received and Dead at the same time on the beach??? this doesn't seem to be a so much a displacement.. as Two Places at the same Time.. if we are to assume.. radio transmissions are unaffected... and so far we do not really have solid proof they are affected... even the man speaking to the Doctor. as well as the Doctor himself were a bit perplexed... wouldn't Keamy have briefed his men to some small degree???

05-13-2008, 12:57 PM	#50
Talontbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 730	Lost_grl.. I got the same impression.. a remote detonator.. and there was the one camera shot of what looked similar to a small thermo nuclear device... but it was fast and I may have wanting it so much I just imagined it.... Even on the freighter it looked as though Keamy would hit the button then.. his threat... and he looked like he meant it.. clearly a man on a mission...